zbd1960 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Higgie' timestamp='1465423395' post='3068184'] Why would marking something to be played an octave higher than written be confusing? [/quote] The bass sounds an octave lower than written. So, writing 8va (which is not standard notation practice in the bass clef as you are 'meant' to switch clefs to either tenor or treble) in the bass clef, creates an immediate ambiguity about pitch (sounding/written). Obviously, if it's only something for yourself then fair enough, but it could cause confusion. Occasionally I have had to play what is referred to as an 'octave treble' - this is what a tenor singer uses. The treble clef has a little '8' subscript on it. What this means is that the sounding pitch is an octave lower than written. So you read treble clef but pitch it down an octave. Edited June 9, 2016 by zbd1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebass Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I would say that the confusion arises from being unfamiliar with the notation. Many players associate a given pitch with a particular fingering (especially woodwind). Seeing an 8va indication rather than a change of clef would cause hesitation and force a player to think about what they should play. 8va (ottava sopra) should really only be needed for keyboard/harp/tuned percussion where every octave is physically the same (It is occasionally used for very high violin/piccolo/flute). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebass Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 [quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1465468828' post='3068474'] Occasionally I have had to play what is referred to as an 'octave treble' - this is what a tenor singer uses. The treble clef has a little '8' subscript on it. What this means is that the sounding pitch is an octave lower than written. So you read treble clef but pitch it down an octave. [/quote] That's essentially what we do as bassists anyway. The little 8 is optional when writing for bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH161 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 [quote name='Joebass' timestamp='1465469524' post='3068486'] I would say that the confusion arises from being unfamiliar with the notation. Many players associate a given pitch with a particular fingering (especially woodwind). Seeing an 8va indication rather than a change of clef would cause hesitation and force a player to think about what they should play. 8va (ottava sopra) should really only be needed for keyboard/harp/tuned percussion where every octave is physically the same (It is occasionally used for very high violin/piccolo/flute). [/quote] I agree with all of this. I suppose the thread has wandered away from the OPs original question as we are now discussing 8va and formal orchestration/arranging. Interesting and good points being made though. Just for clarity, in my earlier comments I was thinking only of bass - and primarily electric bass - and players who read bass clef only. To go back to the OPs question, yes it's a good idea to learn the treble clef too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebass Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='CH161' timestamp='1465472000' post='3068511'] Just for clarity, in my earlier comments I was thinking only of bass - and primarily electric bass - and players who read bass clef only. [/quote] Yeah, sorry for getting off topic. I agree, learn the treble clef. Edited June 9, 2016 by Joebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 [quote name='Joebass' timestamp='1465472896' post='3068527'] Yeah, sorry for getting off topic. I agree, learn the treble clef. [/quote] That is evil! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Joebass' timestamp='1465470195' post='3068493'] That's essentially what we do as bassists anyway. The little 8 is optional when writing for bass. [/quote]Thanks for that - I don't think I've seen one in the wild other than the treble one. With regard ot the OP question, it makes sense I think to learn treble. Try making up some 'flash' cards with notes on - it should help you devleop quick recognition skills. Edited June 9, 2016 by zbd1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH161 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think Joebass may be too modest to mention it... But on another thread he has a transcription of a great Jeff Berlin Solo. I've taken the liberty of posting the url link here: http://joebrittonbass.com/blog/ Fabulous work Joe! Very good indeed. Also this should help answer the question once and for all - why learn the treble clef! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebass Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 [quote name='CH161' timestamp='1465503300' post='3068886'] I think Joebass may be too modest to mention it... But on another thread he has a transcription of a great Jeff Berlin Solo. I've taken the liberty of posting the url link here: [url="http://joebrittonbass.com/blog/"]http://joebrittonbass.com/blog/[/url] Fabulous work Joe! Very good indeed. Also this should help answer the question once and for all - why learn the treble clef! [/quote] Thanks, you're very kind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgie Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Thanks all for clearing that up. Had no idea that 8va was only meant to be used in treble clef! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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