How Many Inches Do You Like?

[eude]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1462795867' post='3045662']
Agreed. Also, I'm pretty sure the Ibanez production 33" scale bass (BTB33) is tuned E-C, so the low B wouldn't be applicable :-)

So basically, if you want a nice 33" scale bass with a good low B, custom build is your only option!
[/quote]

Yup, I think you're probably right, however I wonder if anyone has tried stringing up that BTB33 with a low B?
I'm fairly sure it'd be OK, but yeah a custom build would most likely be better.

Eude

[Billy Apple]

Am I right in thinking the longer the scale, the tighter the B?

[eude]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1462867288' post='3046316']
Am I right in thinking the longer the scale, the tighter the B?
[/quote]

Indeed, that's the basic physics of it, but there's lots of other things in play that can also effect it. A badly designed, assembled and setup 36" bass could end up having a worse low B than a 30" one in that respect.

Eude

[Sammers]

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1462782717' post='3045550']
Long scale gets the best out of low strings and shorter scale suits the higher strings, which is why the Novak(x?) Fanned Fret system makes so much sense, shame it's used to make such enormous basses!
Having played some 35" and 36" basses, particularly on 6 string basses, the high C ends up pretty much unusable.

Eude
[/quote]

Unfortunately I'm a lefty so buying a fanned fret bass off the shelf is impossible but yeah, the fanned fret system does make a lot of sense and I'd love to try 1!

[ambient]

I don't think there's anything much in it.

I've owned 34" and 35" scale basses at the same time, I couldn't tell any difference.

Matt Garrison has an extender on his Fodera, to drop the E string down to a B, his Fodera is I believe a 33" scale instrument.

[jacko]

34" on my Alembics and I have no issues at all with the B string. 42" on my NS CR5M - Thunders

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1462774767' post='3045498']
Does a different scale length make a fundamental difference to the quality of the B? If it doesn't then why bother making long scale basses?
[/quote]

As I said in my first post, IME you need to significantly increase the scale length from 34" in order to make a noticeable difference without addressing the more expensive aspects of the bass such as how the neck is constructed and how it is joined to the body.

So there are the Overwaters from the 80s with a 36" scale which works well although the D and G strings tend to be a little on the stiff side. Therefore the Dingwall fanned fret approach of 37" B and 34"? (I looked on the Dingwall site and couldn't find any mention of the actual lengths of the strings) for the G. Or if you want some seriously low notes you could just get a 39" scale Knuckle Quake.

The problem I have with 35" scale is that a lot of the time it's a cheap cop-out by the manufacturers. After all a neck for a 35" scale instrument only needs about 3/4" of extra wood over one for a 34" scale. AFAICS it's an approach favoured by makers of instruments with bolt-on necks. However IME through neck construction or a good set-neck joint combined with an overall stiffer construction for the neck itself will give far better results.

[SpondonBassed]

My Steiny is a 34. The low B is said to be "adequate" in other fora so I'm happy enough. When I got it first I felt the main difference was in the feel of the low B. It was slacker and I was inclined to run the string right over the edge of the frets when string bending. Nasty. I put some light intermediates on, kindly made by Newtone for me. Much better. Also I have subliminally learned how not to skate off of the low B frets now and I like it.

How the hell do you get to trial one of those "fanny" basses though? I'd love to find out what they're like for myself.

[Graham]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1462965914' post='3047314']

How the hell do you get to trial one of those "fanny" basses though? I'd love to find out what they're like for myself.
[/quote]

Take a trip to Bass Direct in Leamington-Spa

[Owen]

I used to be 35" (MTD, Ritter, Sei, Lakland blah blah blah blah) all the way and then I fell into a 33" Shuker Uberhorn and I now have two 33" 5 strings and could not be happier. I have no bass guitar GAS at all for the first time in about 30 years. It is all very odd

[Musashimonkey]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1463080347' post='3048466']
I used to be 35" (MTD, Ritter, Sei, Lakland blah blah blah blah) all the way and then I fell into a 33" Shuker Uberhorn and I now have two 33" 5 strings and could not be happier. I have no bass guitar GAS at all for the first time in about 30 years. It is all very odd
[/quote]
Interesting... Are they tuned with a low B?

[SpondonBassed]

The OP asks for opinions on 34" and 35" scale lengths so forgive me if this is an inappropriate question.

It looks to me as if the reason for fanned frets is to let each string have it's "ideal" scale length. Does this not make it difficult to span four frets at first position on the fifth string? If so is it actually a problem or is it of little consequence given that the lowest notes are seldom used?

[Owen]

[quote name='Musashimonkey' timestamp='1463089847' post='3048601']
Interesting... Are they tuned with a low B?
[/quote]

You cannot spell Bass with a B! My problem with non 35" basses for a very long time was that the B did not sound like an organic part of the instrument. It was almost like an aftermarket body kit on a car. You knew it was super cool (!) but it did not seem to sit well with the rest of the car. Both my 33" are strung with a B. They do not sound like a 35" but then the rest of the instrument does not either. For me, with these basses, I can play below E and not get cross inside because the tone changes.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1463125131' post='3048746']
For me, with these basses, I can play below E and not get cross inside
[/quote]

I'm very glad you found a solution that works for you. I am curious about extra long scale but I am happy with my 34's for now. At 53, I am unlikely to get the work to make me improve enough to [i]need [/i]such an exotic instrument as a fanned one. If however, I came into some silly money, I would definitely try to demo one.

I think once you are comfortable in yourself you sound better. If you are constantly questioning the worth of your instrument however it brings to mind the old cliche of the workman who claims his efforts are undermined by his own tools.

I ask you all though... Does the audience even notice?

[Owen]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1463128347' post='3048777']
I ask you all though... Does the audience even notice?
[/quote]

The audience have no clue, but if I go for a low note and it just does not "happen" then it makes me REALLY sad inside and puts me right off.
Having said all this, I am actually planning for a full scale 6 string fretted EUB with a bottom F# (with a detuner obv). My NS5 EUB sounds pretty fabulous through a big PA system I REALLY love LF!

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1463128935' post='3048781']
I REALLY love LF!
[/quote]

Don't we all! I would limit my appreciation of low frequency noises however by making one exclusion - "brown noise" as defined here:
[url="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brown+noise"]http://www.urbandict...erm=brown+noise[/url]






Heeheehee..

[BigRedX]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1463125131' post='3048746']
You cannot spell Bass with a B! My problem with non 35" basses for a very long time was that the B did not sound like an organic part of the instrument. It was almost like an aftermarket body kit on a car. You knew it was super cool (!) but it did not seem to sit well with the rest of the car. Both my 33" are strung with a B. They do not sound like a 35" but then the rest of the instrument does not either. For me, with these basses, I can play below E and not get cross inside because the tone changes.
[/quote]

Very much this!

There are too many manufacturers who don't seem to realise that there is a lot more to making a 5-string bass than taking one of their 4-string models, widening the neck and pickups and adding an extra saddle to the bridge and machine head to accommodate the 5th string.

So long as this continues to happen we'll still be seeing 5-string basses (of all scale lengths) that don't deliver a decent sounding and feeling low B and people who try a 5-string and say it not for them because they couldn't get on with the sound and feel of the strings.

[bartelby]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1463129347' post='3048787']
Don't we all! I would limit my appreciation of low frequency noises however by making one exclusion - "brown noise" as defined here:
[url="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brown+noise"]http://www.urbandict...erm=brown+noise[/url]


Heeheehee..
[/quote]

No need to worry:
"[color=#252525][font=sans-serif]In February 2005 the television show [/font][/color][i][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters"]MythBusters[/url][/i][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] used twelve [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Sound"]Meyer Sound[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] 700-HP [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer"]subwoofers[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif]—a model and quantity that has been employed for major [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music"]rock[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] concerts.[/font][/color][sup][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note#cite_note-7"][7][/url][/sup][sup][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note#cite_note-8"][8][/url][/sup][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] Normal operating frequency range of the selected subwoofer model was 28 Hz to 150 Hz[/font][/color][sup][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note#cite_note-9"][9][/url][/sup][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] but the 12 enclosures at [/font][/color][i]MythBusters[/i][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] had been specially modified for deeper bass extension.[/font][/color][sup][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note#cite_note-Meyer2004-10"][10][/url][/sup][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] Roger Schwenke and John Meyer directed the Meyer Sound team in devising a special test rig that would produce very high sound levels at infrasonic frequencies. The subwoofers' [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_reflex"]tuning ports[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] were blocked and their input cards were altered. The modified cabinets were positioned in an open ring configuration: four stacks of three subwoofers each. Test signals were generated by a SIM 3 audio analyzer, with its software modified to produce infrasonic tones. A [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%BCel_%26_Kj%C3%A6r"]Brüel & Kjær[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] sound level analyzer, fed with an attenuated signal from a model 4189 [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone#Measurement_microphones"]measurement microphone[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif], displayed and recorded sound pressure levels.[/font][/color][sup][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note#cite_note-Meyer2004-10"][10][/url][/sup][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] The experimenters on the show tried a series of frequencies as low as 5 Hz, attaining a level of 120 [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel"]decibels[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] of [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure"]sound pressure[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] at 9 Hz and up to 153 dB at frequencies above 20 Hz, but the rumored physiological effects did not materialize.[/font][/color][sup][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note#cite_note-Meyer2004-10"][10][/url][/sup][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] The test subjects all reported some physical anxiety and shortness of breath, even a small amount of nausea, but this was dismissed by the experimenters, noting that sound at that frequency and intensity moves air rapidly in and out of one's [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung"]lungs[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif]. The show declared the brown note myth "busted.""[/font][/color]

[SpondonBassed]

er... you do know I pointed to the Urban Dictionary as a joke don't you? It looks like you've been to an equally reputable site that uses the term "Wiki" in its address. I used to watch Mythbusters but the little chap looks too much like Chris Evans for my liking.

Brown Noise has a true definition. It is here:
http://www.livescience.com/38547-what-is-brown-noise.html

[bassist_lewis]

I have a Callowhill MPB short scale 5 string and, to my ears, it's the best low B I've played. its one of the few Bs IME that's useable beyond the 4th fret. There's nothing special about the neck construction (one piece maple, maybe quartersawn?), the luthier said it was to do with angles at the bridge and nut. The only thing I've done is test a few gauges of low B (125, 130, 135) and, not surprisingly, the 135 was the best.

[eude]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1463483283' post='3051655']
I have a Callowhill MPB short scale 5 string and, to my ears, it's the best low B I've played. its one of the few Bs IME that's useable beyond the 4th fret. There's nothing special about the neck construction (one piece maple, maybe quartersawn?), the luthier said it was to do with angles at the bridge and nut. The only thing I've done is test a few gauges of low B (125, 130, 135) and, not surprisingly, the 135 was the best.
[/quote]

Hey mate, have you got any sound/video clips of the bass in use, especially the low B?
Also, what strings are you using, have you gone custom, or are you going off the shelf?

Cheers,
Eude

[Owen]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1463483283' post='3051655']
beyond the 4th fret.
[/quote]

What are you doing playing ANY string above the 4th fret? Where is your dignity?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1463483283' post='3051655']
I have a Callowhill MPB short scale 5 string and, to my ears, it's the best low B I've played. its one of the few Bs IME that's useable beyond the 4th fret. There's nothing special about the neck construction (one piece maple, maybe quartersawn?), the luthier said it was to do with angles at the bridge and nut. The only thing I've done is test a few gauges of low B (125, 130, 135) and, not surprisingly, the 135 was the best.
[/quote]

That's hardly surprising. If you look at the figures for those manufacturers that publish them, the low B string in a standard 5-string set is very low tension compared with the others and I'd go so far as to suggest that the E string could do with being a bit heavier too. Break angle tricks to decrease to compliance of the string help, but nothing beats actually increasing the unit mass.

[lowhand_mike]

all of them

[bassist_lewis]

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1463483462' post='3051657']


Hey mate, have you got any sound/video clips of the bass in use, especially the low B?
Also, what strings are you using, have you gone custom, or are you going off the shelf?

Cheers,
Eude
[/quote]

I do not currently but I'll throw some together in my free time this week. I think Tim put standard DRs on it, not sure exactly what type but they're rounds. The low B is D'Addario.

Edited May 17, 2016 by bassist_lewis