Any drummers here with some tips on improving timing for an old newbie?!

[tedmanzie]

I've got a friend's set of drums in my studio and also my daughter has a cheap & cheerful set at home - I've tinkered on and off, and for the past few months I've found myself having fun by teaching myself some rhythms. I've never had any lessons but I can do some basic kind of grooves. I'm late 40s, I've got no illusions about being the next John Bonham - my [b]ambition[/b] (!) is very simple - I'd like to be able to play like one of those old Roland/Casio rhythm boxes - simple, metronomic, tight, basic. I tried recording myself the other day and although it wasn't too bad, it's plainly obvious that I'm not 'a drummer' (yet?!

Having slugged away at guitar and bass for years I'm used to practicing with a metronome or playing along to records, but tiny rhythmic flaws are so exposed on the drums that another level of super-human tightness is required. Has anyone here got any tips for improving towards that tightness and feel of a drummer? What exercises pay best dividends? Is it always best to play with a metronome? Etc.

Jack of all trades master of none I know, but it's fun

[FuNkShUi]

I can play drums. Have played drums in one band. But wouldn't call myself a drummer if i'm being brutally honest.
Let's just say i can get by.
Stick to simple to start with with. Simple and slow. Stick with a metronome too.
Sounds obvious, but as a bass player, good timing and being "tight" are what we all look for in a drummer. Whether we are aware of it or not.
Sure someone will be along soon who is more advanced than I, with better tips..... Douglas?

[chris_b]

Play along with a lot of Stax, Atlantic and Malaco records. And keep at it. You'll get good in the end.

[cheddatom]

I'm a drummer but I don't know how I did it, sorry! There are loads of videos on youtube it might be worth watching. I do like a lot of Benny Greb's stuff but I don't know if that's relevant

I was playing drums in a band before I could really play, so that helped a load. I guess the next best thing is to play along to some "drumless" backing tracks, which I've seen advertised online

[fleabag]

Having played bass for many years, you have a head start on any other drummer beginners. Sadly, like many things, there's no shortcut. Thwacking out a beat in your bedroom is easy enough. The hard part comes when its time to play along with other instruments, and on top of that, fills that purposely go out of time and come back in at the right place, half beats / off beats, rolls , paradiddles, beats other than 4/4 etc etc etc ( if you get that far )

Backing tracks would be a great way to kick ( sic ) off , so thats what i would do, and then just keep slogging, and when you've got comfortable with timing, start introducing a fill and come back in on time, and when thats going well, try other options like different timings, and synchopated rhythms that work brilliantly for funk

[fleabag]

PS i should add that i gigged for a few years as a drummer long before i took up the bass, many many moons ago

[TheGreek]

Others have recommended playing along with "drumless" tracks - Wikiloops.com should be ideal for this - you can find a track and add/remove instruments.

http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack.php

[Davo-London]

I am a drummer and it takes many years of practice as far as I can tell. Eventually muscle memory takes over and you can focus on everything else.

Useful tips include:

1) Tap your left foot heel on the ground to keep rhythm
2) practice with a metronome that can be silenced for a bar. SO you start playing along with it and then you need to keep rhythm during the empty bar. Then you can tell if you're on track when the metronome cuts in again.
3) Practice as slow as possible that you can bear, such as 50 bpm. Count one-ee-an-er, two-ee-an-er etc, which splits each crotchet into four parts (1/4 notes or semi-quavers). This also helps you to keep in time and enables various off beats to be executed accurately.

In my opinion playing along with tracks drumless or otherwise is great fun, but I'm not convinced it does much. Playing to a metronome is more telling and you can spot errors more easily. Beginners usually mess up the tempo during fills. So either keep the left foot rhythm or practice these against the metronome.

Learning the drums is a lifelong activity. However, you will be in demand if you can keep it simple and keep it rock steady.

Best of luck
Davo

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1462914496' post='3047006']
I am a drummer and it takes many years of practice as far as I can tell. Eventually muscle memory takes over and you can focus on everything else.

Useful tips include:

1) Tap your left foot heel on the ground to keep rhythm
2) practice with a metronome that can be silenced for a bar. SO you start playing along with it and then you need to keep rhythm during the empty bar. Then you can tell if you're on track when the metronome cuts in again.
3) Practice as slow as possible that you can bear, such as 50 bpm. Count one-ee-an-er, two-ee-an-er etc, which splits each crotchet into four parts (1/4 notes or semi-quavers). This also helps you to keep in time and enables various off beats to be executed accurately.

In my opinion playing along with tracks drumless or otherwise is great fun, but I'm not convinced it does much. Playing to a metronome is more telling and you can spot errors more easily. Beginners usually mess up the tempo during fills. So either keep the left foot rhythm or practice these against the metronome.

Learning the drums is a lifelong activity. However, you will be in demand if you can keep it simple and keep it rock steady.

Best of luck
Davo
[/quote]

Good advice, thanks.

'Simple and rock steady' is my new mantra

[discreet]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1462871302' post='3046379']
Play along with a lot of Stax, Atlantic and Malaco records. And keep at it. You'll get good in the end.
[/quote]

+1 May as well learn from the best.

Edited May 10, 2016 by discreet

[Dad3353]

The important bits are not the most 'fun'. I'd start with breathing, coupled with relaxation. Any tightening up, anywhere in the body, is going to have consequences, so, if you've not already got that sorted, become able to relax and breath, steadily, deeply. Relax. Yes, yoga (at least, the breathing part...) can and does help, a lot.
Second important part: rudiments. Playing the whole kit is fun, and is the objective. Do it, that's fine. But before you do, have a session of rudiments, with a drum pad, a decent set of method books, a metronome (optional, but recommended...) and a good half-hour or more. Go through the snare rudiments slowly, doing single strokes for a while, then double strokes, paradiddles et al. Slowly. Accurately. Relaxed. Breathing. Ignore the rest of your body. Ignore the world. Relax, concentrate on playing, reading the dots, breathing, getting it right. Once you've done that, go to the kit and do the same: rudiments, on the snare drum, on the hi-hats, on the bass drum, on the toms. There are tons of methods for doing the simple exercises on the kit. Once you've done that, you can have a bash about, relaxing into whatever grooves take your fancy (I recommend bossa-nova, or salsa-types beats as a change from 1-2-3-4 metronome stuff...). Don't neglect other time signatures, such as 3/4, 5/7 etc, and relax. Breath. Relax.
Now for my usual words of encouragement... It's the first forty years that are the hardest, after which things sometimes tend to become (slightly...) easier.
Now relax. Breath. Relax.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Dad3353

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1462886688' post='3046632']
Thwacking out a beat in your bedroom is easy enough. The hard part comes...
[/quote]

Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

Edited May 10, 2016 by SpondonBassed

[fleabag]

perhaps i should have phrased that better

[chris_b]

Do it properly, get some lessons from a good teacher.

[Guest bassman7755]

Try recording yourself playing to a drum track or metronome, even if its using something basic like a phone voice recording app, that will show up errors that you might not be concious of while actually playing. To some extent though consistent timing requires a certain amount of raw hours on fingerboard so be patient.

Edited May 11, 2016 by bassman7755

[discreet]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1462955776' post='3047162']
Try recording yourself playing to a drum track or metronome, even if its using something basic like a phone voice recording app, that will show up errors that you might not be concious of while actually playing.
[/quote]

Good advice, and not just for drums.

[Huge Hands]

Another former drummer here.

Another thing to look at might be your setup of the drums themselves. Make sure your kit is as comfortable as can be for you.

I know this might sound obvious, but I once tried to join a band where the drummer had his snare really low and his toms really high. His cymbals were even higher. Watching him go from each was like watching a Mr Motivator stretch workout.

His timing was all over the shop. I managed to persuade him to try a setup I would use (as little movement as possible) and he played much better....but then said he didn't like it and put everything back the way they were!

You can't help them all I suppose.....(EDIT - and I decided not to join the band..)

Edited May 11, 2016 by Huge Hands

[cheddatom]

the setup/layout of the kit is still driving me mad, and I've been doing it 8 or 9 years now. The heights of the snare and stool are the most important IMO and I'm still not sure I've got it right.

A good tip might be to make the kit sound good - a bad sounding kit might be demotivating. There are loads of good tuning tutorials on youtube

[bubinga5]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1462955776' post='3047162']
Try recording yourself playing to a drum track or metronome, even if its using something basic like a phone voice recording app, that will show up errors that you might not be concious of while actually playing. To some extent though consistent timing requires a certain amount of raw hours on fingerboard so be patient.
[/quote]This.

Its easy to get complacent and not hear where your timing might be off. its easy to do when your concentrating on the physical aspects of playing.

I went to art school for 4 years, used to draw paint etc, and technically, the best lesson i learned was to look at what you have drawn/painted in a mirror. Its a great way to refresh what you have been looking at for so long. Ok its not the best example/explanation, but i think its similar to listening to yourself recorded. You see/hear where you might be going wrong.

A fresh perspective is what I'm getting at. it really does work.

Well thats my experience.

Edited May 11, 2016 by bubinga5

[Mykesbass]

Any drummers on here tried on of these?http://www.luglock.com/beat_bug.htm

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1463004071' post='3047836']
Any drummers on here tried on of these?http://www.luglock.com/beat_bug.htm
[/quote]

interesting! Not seen them before. I would have thought you could get an app to do the same on your phone these days. It'd be good for pointing out where you're slowing down or speeding up. I often won't notice that I play a particular section of a song slightly faster until we come to record it to a click

[Dad3353]

Whilst not suggesting that speeding up or slowing down is the sign of a good drummer, it's good to note that most decent drum software or hardware includes a 'humanise' feature, so as to sound a bit less clinical. An absolute, 'rock-solid' tempo is good for many styles of music, but not all. Playing to a click (or rather, being able to play to a click...) is good, but it's not necessarily in the best interests of the music being played. Having a 'rev counter' on display before my eyes would not serve me, I'd not invest such a sum, or even half of that. It'll suit some, surely.

[cheddatom]

yeh, most times these days, if I realise that a certain section is slower or faster, we either abandon the click or draw in an automated tempo track, as that's how it feels right

[ivansc]

A less obvious thought on this one.

Make sure you are playing in time with yourself before worrying about playing in time with the groove.

Put you bass in the playing position but instead of playing any actual notes, simultaneously tap with the same finger of both left and right hand on the same string.
When you can do this over and over and there is only one click or thud, bring a second finger into play and alternate them, still looking for both fingers (L & R) to land on the string at the exact same moment.
Sounds silly, but getting co-ordination between the two hands smack on IS a prelude to getting real precision in your overall playing, which in turn leads to tighter playing over a groove.
When I was teaching this was the first thing I showed new players.
Obviously you need the other stuff, but this on its own will give you more control & power with less effort.
Try it.

EDIT:
Completely forgot to get to the actual point of this ramble! I too got into drums and found the same issues - plodding along like a three legged donkey, where in my head I was billy cobham,.
So I applied the same technique as I outlined above to get my two hands in synch on the kit.
Don`t know about the feet, as for some reason they have never been a problem.

Edited May 18, 2016 by ivansc

[Number6]

Paradiddles with a metronome.....

Can be done with the sticks, or the bass drum and hi-hat or all together