Have we all become wimps or is it a sign of an ageing population

[Kex]

Weight. Thats what I am taking about, when I started playing back in the late 1970s (yep, really am that ancient) bass stacks were big and heavy.

We had two transits to lug around our equipment, the PA alone took two men just to move each cab, and there were six of them.
My amp was a 4 x 10 Trace Elliot combo, at the time relatively small compared to other people 8 x 12 Marshall stacks, but it was still heavy. Very heavy, I know because until last month I still owned it.

Until recent;y i had never even considered the weight of a Bass, it was what it was, yet now I keep seeing 'how much does it weigh' in replies to adverts - OK, i am sure there are some people who have back / medical issues, but not that many surely!

Same with equipment, number if times I have seen people with small lightweight cabs kidding themselves that that 8mm chipboard ply is going to produce the same sound as 15mm marine plywood is amazing. Go and try and lift up a professional full range B&W studio monitor, or even a high end home hifi, its massively heavy and there is a reason for that.

So, whats with the weight thing, have we all become wimps

Edited May 14, 2016 by Kex

[MoonBassAlpha]

Most studio monitors and home hifi speaker cabinets are made of mdf.

[Japhet]

I remember the 70s when the sound at the vast majority of gigs was mostly between sh*te and unlistenable. It was generally through the now much coveted valve amps and the not so coveted heavyweight cabs. Times have certainly changed as has the degree of tint on the rose tinted specs.

[BassBus]

Common sense really. I think you summed it up in your first sentence. Back in the 70s, and I was there too, rock musicians were all young. Those same musicians are still playing today and are suffering from having to lift all those heavy cabinets around. Technology has also changed. Speaker magnets are much lighter now if you want them to be. There is the choice. If you want a big, heavy cab buy one. If you want you want a small light cab buy one. Your choice. I know what I have gone for. Same reason I have suspension on my mountain bike.

[PaulWarning]

somebody has just lent me a T E 4 x10 on permanent loan, sounds great but unless I get a roadie I won't be gigging with it any time soon, 40Kg and 18" deep, I'd struggle to get it out of my front door on my own

[Dood]

We did it because we had to. Now we don't. And if there's a reason not to do something, human nature and all that...

[Twincam]

I think I'm just about coming around to the lightweight is better than heavier gear.
It's so much more convenient in everyway. And I guess some people do have injuries.

I think in the past lighter weight equaled crap. But certainly not anymore.
So why not have your cake and eat it.

[ahpook]

[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463212601' post='3049512']
Weight. Thats what I am taking about, when I started playing back in the late 1970s (yep, really am that ancient) bass stacks were big and heavy.

We had two transits to lug around our equipment, the PA alone took two men just to move each cab, and there were six of them.
My amp was a 4 x 10 Trace Elliot combo, at the time relatively small compared to other people 8 x 12 Marshall stacks, but it was still heavy. Very heavy, I know because until last month I still owned it.

Until recent;y i had never even considered the weight of a Bass, it was what it was, yet now I keep seeing 'how much does it weigh' in replies to adverts - OK, i am sure there are some people who have back / medical issues, but not that many surely!

Same with equipment, number if times I have seen people with small lightweight cabs kidding themselves that that 8mm chipboard ply is going to produce the same sound as 15mm marine plywood is amazing. Go and try and lift up a professional full range B&W studio monitor, or even a high end home hifi, its massively heavy and there is a reason for that.

So, whats with the weight thing, have we all become wimps
[/quote]

De-caff ?

Edited May 14, 2016 by ahpook

[gjones]

Heavyweight stuff is going out of fashion, as technology allows us to downsize without sacrificing tone or volume.

I know a guy who picked up an Ampeg SVT and 8x10 for pennies. He plays small pubs with it, while the guitarist plays through a 15 watt Fender blues junior. Overkill? Possibly?

I personally, live on the 3rd floor of a block of flats, so I'll be sticking with my lightweight gear.

Edited May 14, 2016 by gjones

[Kex]

So old bad, new good?

Guess thats why a Stradivarius is next to worthless, why a 1952 Precision is unsalable, why vintage Aston Martins sit unwanted in damp garagea and no one drinks anything other then Beaujolais Nouveau. As for those old valves, don't even start......

Edited May 14, 2016 by Kex

[discreet]

[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463218308' post='3049589']
So old bad, new good? Guess that's why a Stradivarius is next to worthless, why a 1952 Precision is unsaelable, why vintage Aston Martins sit unwanted in damp garages and no one drinks anything other then Beaujolais Nouveau. As for those old valves, don't even start...
[/quote]

A Stradivarius weighs the same as a modern violin. A 52 P-Bass weighs the same as a modern P-Bass. You get my drift. It's not about age, it's about practicality. If you do a lot of gigs and you're hauling your own gear, a hefty rig becomes a pain in the arse [i]really [/i]quick, regardless of whether it was made in the 70s or last week!

Edited May 14, 2016 by discreet

[vbance]

In the 80's i struggled to carry my TNT150 to the car. In the 90's i struggled to carry my DB-700 to the car. Now i struggle with a One10, mb amp, guitar in hard case and mic stand between my teeth....i'm no wimp;0)

[Kex]

Look like Ampeg have got the message then !

[Grangur]

[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463218308' post='3049589']
So old bad, new good?

Guess thats why a Stradivarius is next to worthless, why a 1952 Precision is unsalable, why vintage Aston Martins sit unwanted in damp garagea and no one drinks anything other then Beaujolais Nouveau. As for those old valves, don't even start......
[/quote]

Old violins can get better with age. A pro classical guitarist friend tells me a modern guitar has only about a 10 year useful life.
Wrt electric instruments, do the electronics improve with age? I've not noticed this.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463212601' post='3049512']
Weight. Thats what I am taking about, when I started playing back in the late 1970s (yep, really am that ancient) bass stacks were big and heavy.

We had two transits to lug around our equipment, the PA alone took two men just to move each cab, and there were six of them.
My amp was a 4 x 10 Trace Elliot combo, at the time relatively small compared to other people 8 x 12 Marshall stacks, but it was still heavy. Very heavy, I know because until last month I still owned it.

Until recent;y i had never even considered the weight of a Bass, it was what it was, yet now I keep seeing 'how much does it weigh' in replies to adverts - OK, i am sure there are some people who have back / medical issues, but not that many surely!

Same with equipment, number if times I have seen people with small lightweight cabs kidding themselves that that 8mm chipboard ply is going to produce the same sound as 15mm marine plywood is amazing. Go and try and lift up a professional full range B&W studio monitor, or even a high end home hifi, its massively heavy and there is a reason for that.

So, whats with the weight thing, have we all become wimps
[/quote]

In my experience, the 1970s was heavy unreliable equipment, that did not sound good, transported in a six-wheel Transit and a large estate car following.

In my experience, the 2010s is much lighter, compact and reliable equipment, that does sound good, and fits in my Seat Ibiza.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463218308' post='3049589']
So old bad, new good?

Guess thats why a Stradivarius is next to worthless, why a 1952 Precision is unsalable, why vintage Aston Martins sit unwanted in damp garagea and no one drinks anything other then Beaujolais Nouveau. As for those old valves, don't even start......
[/quote]

Some things get more valuable with age due to scarcity or aesthetics, by and large bass cabs are not one of those things. The hand selected and meticulous crafted tone-woods in a Stradivarius might sound better with age but the same does not apply to a mass produced plywood square box.

I like the looks of classic cars (I even own one) but the Tesla S, the pinnacle of modern car technology will destroy any old car by pretty much any practical metric.

Theres simply no upside to using a sh*te old big heavy cab vs a modern small lightweight one (other than the cost). The quality-of-life enhancement of being able to easily carry a cab in one hand is hard to convey unless you've experienced it yourself, there is really no going back. These days I would not consider owning a cab over 30lbs in weight under any circumstances as this is my personal nuisance-to-move-about threshold. Yeah sure I could still physically carry an 80lb peavey 4x10 but I would dread having do so (as indeed I did back in the day when that was all I had).

Heavy stuff is heavy because of the technical and cost limitations of the day, not because its somehow better purely by being heavy.

Edited May 14, 2016 by bassman7755

[Woodinblack]

Because now you can get decent basses that don't weigh as much. Why is that an issue?

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1463219094' post='3049607']
A pro classical guitarist friend tells me a modern guitar has only about a 10 year useful life.
[/quote]

Based on what evidence!? Why?

Are we talking modern classical guitars? Modern acoustic guitars in general? All modern guitars?

[Mykesbass]

Ah, the 70's, when men were men, wore double denim, Hi Karate and chest wigs, and proved their macho credentials by driving after 8 pints of Red Barrel, beating the wife and strapping on the heaviest Precision they can lay their hands on. Yes, we've all become wimps fortunately

[EssentialTension]

http://youtu.be/jtwh3nQP5Uo

[EssentialTension]

http://youtu.be/ECvWJadIKNY

[4stringslow]

In the 70s there was so little choice, now there is loads and people are choosing accordingly. Simple. I doubt it's an age thing - have bass-player demographics really changed that much?

Interesting that this topic should be running concurrently with the 'Justification' topic, where the consensus seems to be 'because I want to'.

[chris_b]

What's with the weight?

My first cab was a 412 that was so heavy that 2 of us only just managed to pick it up. Lifting that thing should have been an Olympic sport.

The stupidly excessive weight of Road Ready EV Mesa Boogie cabs was fine in my 40's but in my 50's finally ruptured a disc. That's permanent and life altering damage. If neo cabs hadn't come along when they did I'd have been retired for the last 15 years.

The guys at Bergantino and Barefaced are now producing cabs that sound far better than any cab I used in the previous 40 years (and I had some of the best). . . and you can lift them without a hoist. Believe me it's a great time to be bass player, especially an old one!!

[BassBus]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1463223676' post='3049666']
...have bass-player demographics really changed that much?
[/quote]

No. 80% of bass players still play Fender type instruments.

[Beer of the Bass]

One thing that occurred to me is that it's harder to drive and park in cities than it would have been 40 years ago - there are more vehicles on the road and parking is heavily regulated. Also, relatively few people have lock-up type spaces to store their gear. If I could always park a van outside the venue and had a ground-floor space that all the bands gear was stored in, I wouldn't think twice about using stuff that was large and heavy if it did a better job. Keeping my gear in my flat and having to contend with city-centre parking, lighter gear makes a lot more sense for most gigs.