Have we all become wimps or is it a sign of an ageing population

[FuNkShUi]

Hahaha fair point.
I have a Kustom KXB500 into a TKS S112

[luckydog]

I've been there and done that as to lightweight!

Now I'm through the other side and back to a heavy rig. It just happened, I wasn't ever deeply happy with the lightweight sound I think, except at low levels. If I was honest with myself it was always a compromise, esp for stage sound unless also in the monitors. But I did enjoy being able to get around by public transport !

LD

[Lw.]

In terms of the strength/weight issue; I've said for a while that people complaining about sore shoulders or backs after long rehearsals/gigs should be looking at weight training - it really does help (and the results manifest quite quickly)! Deadlifts, squats, bench press, overhead press etc... all work large muscles groups & improve your core strength - it's so cheap & easy to do I would recommend that people do it even if they're not currently struggling.

[ped]

Do you lightweight gear people find that once you set up after walking in with a cab in each hand and an amp in your pocket the rest of the band let you chill out whilst they unload their non-heavyweight gear? I somehow always ended up getting lumped with the drum hardware which was really heavy and so awkward to carry!!

I agree there are advantages of course but that day (one particular hot summer's day where I must have been in a sh*tty mood) I couldn't wait to get my own back with the Mesa 1516BE

[Muzz]

A couple of our dep drummers have very small light kits (one's a drum teacher who doesn't drive - he can get the whole thing on one of those little collapsible trolleys for public transport), but the subs are always still a pain. And we sometimes have a dep guitarist with a stupidly heavy 212 combo. Which no-one volunteers to carry...

But the less weighty kit the band has overall, the less weight we all have to carry...

And there's no-one but me to load my car in and out of the house...

[Woodinblack]

For me it isn't an age thing, although I originally looked into it when my knee gave in. My current rig is lighter than the older one, but also more flexible, so I am not sure what I would gain by getting a heavier one.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1463407561' post='3051079']
In terms of the strength/weight issue; I've said for a while that people complaining about sore shoulders or backs after long rehearsals/gigs should be looking at weight training - it really does help (and the results manifest quite quickly)! Deadlifts, squats, bench press, overhead press etc... all work large muscles groups & improve your core strength - it's so cheap & easy to do I would recommend that people do it even if they're not currently struggling.
[/quote]

When people talk about bad backs, I kind of lose a bit of sympathy if they are carrying 2-3 stone around their waist.
I think you can help yourself a lot too...
I've got two prolapsed discs thru a football injury injury but I can manage things and need to focus on keeping that area in shape.
I have a lightweight rig but still take out a heavy one if the situation requires it..

[BassBod]

For me it's all about logistics and transport- I work a lot, parking is rarely close by (in cities) and also venues often aren't big enough for the old stuff.

Increasingly I find that sharing transport saves costs, but this means more gear in each vehicle, so smaller and lighter means easier.

One observation - once you get used to lighter kit, the old stuff feels heavier! I've still got my favourite SWR and Bag End amps and cabs, but I'll only drag it out for very specific gigs.

[luckydog]

There are two types of bass players: them that's got the hernia, and them that's gonna get the hernia .........

LD

[discreet]

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1463430207' post='3051341']
There are two types of bass players: them that's got the hernia, and them that's gonna get the hernia...
[/quote]

Three, actually: there's them that's had the hernia, had it surgically repaired and don't wan't to risk another one, thanks very much.

[zbd1960]

An osteopath I knew used to say that the root of back problems generally is that the human muscuko-skeletal system is not really designed for walking upright - it's evolved from being quadrupeds and it's still not the finished product.

Whilst weight, muscle tone etc can be factors, they guarantee nothing. Fundamentally we do things (e.g. sit in chairs, use computers, play basses) which we were not specifically 'designed' to do. Most of us have bad posture habits and other behaviours which are less than ideal when it comes to protecting our backs.

My back first went out at the age of 22. At that time, I was fairly fit and weighed 10st. Unlike then, I am now careful about what and how I lift things and some things I will not even attempt. I have had far fewer problems in the last 10 years or so (I'm now mid 50s).

A work colleague in his mid 30s had always 'laughed' at others' back problems. He's a fit guy, running half marathons etc. Suddenly 2 months ago his back 'went'. He said afterwards that he never understood why people went on about backs and he thought people were making it up and just 'slacking'. Cue excruciating pain and being unable to move for several days: he now has a different perspective. If you've never suffered, be grateful, and sympathetic to those that do suffer.

[Marty Forrer]

I have three crumbling vertebrae and a herniated disc, so a 2kg amp and two 7kg cabs are great for me. 20 years ago I had a Mesa 400w valve head and two Road Ready cabs. Silly me.

[Paul S]

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1463434301' post='3051386']
An osteopath I knew used to say that the root of back problems generally is that the human muscuko-skeletal system is not really designed for walking upright - it's evolved from being quadrupeds and it's still not the finished product.

Whilst weight, muscle tone etc can be factors, they guarantee nothing. Fundamentally we do things (e.g. sit in chairs, use computers, play basses) which we were not specifically 'designed' to do. Most of us have bad posture habits and other behaviours which are less than ideal when it comes to protecting our backs.

My back first went out at the age of 22. At that time, I was fairly fit and weighed 10st. Unlike then, I am now careful about what and how I lift things and some things I will not even attempt. I have had far fewer problems in the last 10 years or so (I'm now mid 50s).

A work colleague in his mid 30s had always 'laughed' at others' back problems. He's a fit guy, running half marathons etc. Suddenly 2 months ago his back 'went'. He said afterwards that he never understood why people went on about backs and he thought people were making it up and just 'slacking'. Cue excruciating pain and being unable to move for several days: he now has a different perspective. If you've never suffered, be grateful, and sympathetic to those that do suffer.
[/quote]

All of this, very much so. When my back first 'went' I was in my early 40s and a very fit and strong gym bunny. I was getting over a lengthy illness and went a bit mad on exercise - used to rep with 100kg for bench press and 200kg for squats etc. Thought I was invincible. One day I was measuring the width of a room indoors with a tape measure and the act of pulling the end out and sideways is what did it. I actually cried with a mixture of pain, frustration and laughter - often heard the expression 'helpless as a baby' but never thought I'd experience it until that point.

So, yes, if it hasn't happened to you count your blessings but try to understand those who are afflicted. Having a bad back infiltrates pretty much every aspect of your life, not just lightweight bass gear. From not being able to put your socks on some days to standing all day, just because you don't want to have to get up from sitting.

[paulmcnamara]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1463466618' post='3051480']
All of this, very much so. When my back first 'went' I was in my early 40s and a very fit and strong gym bunny. I was getting over a lengthy illness and went a bit mad on exercise - used to rep with 100kg for bench press and 200kg for squats etc. Thought I was invincible. One day I was measuring the width of a room indoors with a tape measure and the act of pulling the end out and sideways is what did it. I actually cried with a mixture of pain, frustration and laughter - often heard the expression 'helpless as a baby' but never thought I'd experience it until that point.

So, yes, if it hasn't happened to you count your blessings but try to understand those who are afflicted. Having a bad back infiltrates pretty much every aspect of your life, not just lightweight bass gear. From not being able to put your socks on some days to standing all day, just because you don't want to have to get up from sitting.
[/quote]


+1

and Kex you have to remember that we don't transport heavy studio monitors or high end hifi to gigs and rehearsals each week, so there are both health and practical considerations.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1463270111' post='3050126']
Also, ever noticed that an awful lot of pro players with road crew still
favour heavy valve/ big cab rigs? Just sayin....
[/quote]

If you've got a road crew it really doesn't matter how heavy your rig is. It is someone else's job the carry it.

Also the sound of the bass rig becomes less important the larger the stage is as the bass will most likely be DI'd before the amp and most of the on-stage sound will be delivered through the monitors, and the FoH will come almost entirely from the PA.

[fretmeister]

Anyone who carries heavy kit purely because it *must* be better just because it's heavy is an idiot.

If a particular sound is only available with heavy kit, then so be it. But other than that, there is no good reason to not take advantage of the tech advances.

[casapete]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1463475257' post='3051558']
If you've got a road crew it really doesn't matter how heavy your rig is. It is someone else's job the carry it.

Also the sound of the bass rig becomes less important the larger the stage is as the bass will most likely be DI'd before the amp and most of the on-stage sound will be delivered through the monitors, and the FoH will come almost entirely from the PA.
[/quote]
That was my point. With road crew you can presumably have [i]anything[/i] you want, big and heavy OR smaller and lightweight.
A lot of people in this situation elect to choose the former. Whether this is for purely sonic reasons or aesthetics is another
matter of course, but I would like to think how the rig sounds would be the main factor.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1463476440' post='3051572']... But other than that, there is no good reason to not take advantage of the tech advances.
[/quote]

Well, there is the cost factor, for some.
Just sayin'.

[luckydog]

[QUOTE]Fretmeister said:

If a particular sound is only available with heavy kit, then so be it.[/QUOTE]


And that, unfortunately, is the case.

LD

[JTUK]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1463476440' post='3051572']
Anyone who carries heavy kit purely because it *must* be better just because it's heavy is an idiot.

If a particular sound is only available with heavy kit, then so be it. But other than that, there is no good reason to not take advantage of the tech advances.
[/quote]

You assume there must be advances.... unless being light is an advance in itself.

Personally, I've done enough 'research' and I know what gives me what.
Doesn't mean I don't have a light option but I know it comes off second best in my quest
to find what I need.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1463476815' post='3051575']
That was my point. With road crew you can presumably have [i]anything[/i] you want, big and heavy OR smaller and lightweight.
A lot of people in this situation elect to choose the former. Whether this is for purely sonic reasons or aesthetics is another
matter of course, but I would like to think how the rig sounds would be the main factor.
[/quote]

I would imagine it's a mixture of familiarity, ignorance and inertia. If your Ampeg SVT and fridge goes wrong you'll be able to hire an exact replacement in most parts of the world. Once you step away from in front of your rig on anything but the smallest of stages you are dependent upon the monitoring system to hear your bass and only those in the audience who are right at the front in the "line of fire" are going to hear anything that hasn't come through the PA. Is it any wonder that players stick with what they know that looks the part and is easy to get hold of?

[Basszilla]

My rig is extremely heavy, even the head alone is just silly (Matamp gt200+610).

The sound it makes is utterly incredible.

I have stupidly managed to singlehandedly lift it out of the car and up my front steps on a few occasions, never again.

At present, it is left set up at the studio I jam at, as we are mid way through tracking an album and can only get in once or twice a week to actually record so it's pointless dismantling it right now.

I need to get a lightweight option to use 90% of the time for those very reasons. Soon as cash is available I will be investing. Those mesa subways look the business.

[Muzz]

The sheer practicalities of my gigging life apart, I'd be very interested to AB my present rig with a SVT/810 (preferably blind, to remove the 'phwoooar, lookit that' factor), just to see if what I remember about the sound really was all that in a live situation. I'm one of the people on here who always say "SVT/810" when dream rigs are mentioned, but it's been a loooong time since I played through one, and lots and lots of things I thought were fantastic back then might not be quite as I fondly recall. I had a shock when I bought a Rickenbacker a while back as I really didn't like it (though it looked great), and there's waaaay to much photographic evidence still remaining as to my fashion decisions which really don't bear scrutiny.

I wonder if it's the same with my old big heavy rigs?

[JTUK]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1463509576' post='3051962']
The sheer practicalities of my gigging life apart, I'd be very interested to AB my present rig with a SVT/810 (preferably blind, to remove the 'phwoooar, lookit that' factor), just to see if what I remember about the sound really was all that in a live situation. I'm one of the people on here who always say "SVT/810" when dream rigs are mentioned, but it's been a loooong time since I played through one, and lots and lots of things I thought were fantastic back then might not be quite as I fondly recall. I had a shock when I bought a Rickenbacker a while back as I really didn't like it (though it looked great), and there's waaaay to much photographic evidence still remaining as to my fashion decisions which really don't bear scrutiny.

I wonder if it's the same with my old big heavy rigs?
[/quote]

I have current rigs so my reference is not a memory.
Having said that, I'm pleased that my light rig gets compliments too.

[discreet]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1463509576' post='3051962']
I'd be very interested to AB my present rig with a SVT/810 (preferably blind, to remove the 'phwoooar, lookit that' factor), just to see if what I remember about the sound really was all that in a live situation. I'm one of the people on here who always say "SVT/810" when dream rigs are mentioned, but it's been a loooong time since I played through one, and lots and lots of things I thought were fantastic back then might not be quite as I fondly recall.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure you'd know, even blindfold. The good news is I have played an SVT/810 this year and I was gratified to learn that it's just as I remember it, if not better. Still the benchmark, imho. But I'd like to hear an SVT through a BF Six10 or Eight10, I think that might well be an acceptable compromise... or even a Big Twin 2, in fact.