BigRedX Buys A Fender...

[BigRedX]

Well not quite - it's a Squier VM Bass VI, so not exactly a Fender and hardly a P or a J Bass.

Anyway first off the most important bit for a forum - some photos:

[IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/Squier%20Bass%20VI/DSC01543_zpsjylepume.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/Squier%20Bass%20VI/DSC01545_zpsjeqowmmu.jpg[/IMG]

It's Olympic White with a red/brown tort scratch plate. The neck is maple with a rosewood fingerboard, white binding and fake MoP block inlays. Scale length is exactly 30" the same as the original Fender Bass VI. String spacing is 35mm E-E at the nut and 11mm between string centres at the bridge. Three single coil pickup each with its own on/off switch. The other controls are master volume, master tone and the "strangle switch". There's the Jag-style bridge and vibrato.

First impressions:

It's a tight fit in the box, so it's a good thing that Musik Productiv double boxed this one for shipping as I doubt it would have arrived unscathed without the extra packaging. I like the colour - this version of Olympic White has just a hint of creaminess about it and isn't horribly yellow like some examples I've seen. With it being a poly finish it has a better chance of staying that way too. The dark red tort scratch plate goes well with it too. As you can probably set from the photos I haven't removed the plastic film from the scratch plate of the pickups yet.

The fitted strings are horrible. The low E in particular is very floppy and set too low so it's rattling all over the place. Otherwise the basic set-up straight out of the box isn't too bad considering. All the octaves are in tune with the harmonics. There are problems with how it plays as supplied but none of these can be fixed without disassembling the instrument.

There also seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the gauges of the strings fitted. According to the Fender website it comes with a set of .025 - .095, but from what I can see all the actual Bass VI sets made by Fender are .024 - .084. Certainly, comparing the fitted strings to the ones on my Burns short-scale bass (G-E .040 to .090) the E definitely feels lighter and more compliant. I've ordered a standard set of LaBella Steels for the Bass VI (.026 - .095), so I'll see if these compare.

The other issue with the floppiness of the strings is the shallow break angle at the bridge and for the G to E strings at the nut.

[IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/Squier%20Bass%20VI/DSC01554_zpsnjjivcsw.jpg[/IMG]

The strings have only between 1 and 2 turns around the machine head posts which for the lower strings isn't enough to get a sharp enough break angle. For a non-angled neck I would want at least 4 turns around these machine heads for each of the G, D, A and E strings to get them down far enough. Again this is something that can be sorted out when I fit the new strings.

[IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/Squier%20Bass%20VI/DSC01548_zpsulscu0vz.jpg[/IMG]

Also the gear ratio on these machine heads seems a little bit low for the bass strings. I can live with it at the moment, but if I decide that I'm going to be using this a lot and especially if I gig with it then I'll be investigating some replacement machine heads with a higher get ratio.

Overall the neck feels more like a long guitar neck rather than a short bass neck, although it's considerably deeper than all of my guitars and feels deeper than most of my basses. Despite also being a guitar player, I'm finding the string spacing a bit tight on the neck compared to my guitars which all have a wider nut (37mm minimum). I'd forgotten how narrow the necks on traditional Fender-style guitars can be.

The white binding on the neck is a nice touch, but the side dot marker positioning is a bit strange as it's half on, half off the binding. I've never come across this before, all the other instruments I've owned that have fingerboard binding the dots are just in the binding. Some of the block markers don't appear to be centred on the fingerboard, but this might be an optical illusion cause by the relative thicknesses of the highest and lowest strings. I'll re-evaluate this when I get the strings off.

The other problem area is the bridge, which has quite a bit of play in its position and can easily be rocked back and forth. This might be a useful feature on a guitar if you are playing MBV type stuff, but has no real place on a bass IMO. I'm going to shim the neck so that I can raise the bridge to get a better break angle. With the supplied strings there doesn't seem to be an issue with the intonation at the moment. I'll see what happens when I fit the supposedly heavier LaBellas and and raise the bridge.

So, what does it sound like? Well my initial thoughts are that the sound has far more of a "guitar" character than a bass even though I'm playing in the same register as I would on a bass guitar. Because of the tight string spacing there is a tendency to want the play guitar chords, but this is generally a bad idea as the sound becomes mushy and the notes in the chord indistinct. Chords are best on 2 strings, and maybe 3 if I'm playing in a higher register.

The centre pickup is reverse wound reverse magnetic polarity, so it is humbucking in combination with the neck or bridge pickups. All the pickup combinations give usefully different sounds. Right now my favourites are neck and middle and bridge and middle. I'm sure though, that I'll re-evaluate this when I actually use the bass in a band situation. The volume control is pretty smooth for a passive circuit, but the tone control does very little until the final part of it's travel at which point it applies a fairly extreme treble cut. That will need looking at in the long term.

The sound between the strings is a little unbalanced at the moment. I like the A and D, but the low E is unsurprisingly flabby and the top three strings are currently sounding a bit to brittle and guitar-like. Hopefully this will be something that the replacement strings will help to sort out.

The Strangle Switch is a strange control. At first I don't really like what it does to the sound, but playing with my Bass Pod settings and adding a bit more dirt than I would normally and boosting the upper-mids slightly and it suddenly makes sense. The extra drive compensates for the volume drop and the bass cut makes everything a bit more defined.

For the sort of music I'm playing on this instrument it definitely benefits from a touch of chorus or flanger to give that post-punk feel - instant Joy Division or Cure. Also a brighter distortion sound than I would normally use on a bass sounds good.

Finally the vibrato. TBH I don't really know what it's doing on this instrument. I like vibrato systems - all my guitars have one fitted, but on the Bass VI it's so subtle and unresponsive, that I can't see the point to it. Maybe when I change the strings and the bridge break angle it will start working better.

Overall? It's been a while since I owned such a relatively cheap instrument. Apart from my HB Deko Baritone guitar, everything else I play on a regular basis costs considerably more than this bass. So I can't really expect it to be as well set up and playable straight out of the box. However IMO a lot of the problems are design related and considering that the Bass VI first appeared in 1961, and that manufacturing processes for budget guitars have improved considerably since then, it's more than a little disappointing to find that there are still issues with the instrument that could and should have been fixed by now, especially considering that the worst ones are directly related to the type of strings and how they are fitted.

New strings should arrive any day now, so I'll shim the neck and raise the bridge when I fit them, and report back. Right now it's a potentially interesting bass let down by a few things that could easily be fixed in the construction and assembly stages.

[Roland Rock]

Hell has frozen over, pigs are flying etc.

Great info thanks. I've always loved the sound of the Fender VI, especially on the Disintegration album. Looking forward to hearing some recorded (or live) output.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Roland Rock

[FlatEric]

Nice, informative write up/review.

[discreet]

[EssentialTension]

Very good but you won't know what you've got until you've shimmed the neck and changed the strings. It makes a massive difference in my experience, as does the Staytrem bridge.

[CamdenRob]

...you bought a Fender.

[Musicman20]

Definitely missed out on one of those at the offer price. Damn my indecision. It would have been PERFECT for what I want to do right now.

[discreet]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1463733430' post='3053643']
...would have been PERFECT for what I want to do right now.
[/quote]

Practise your luthery skills?

[Hobbayne]

The original bass player from The Hollies played one of those, as did a rather unimpressed looking John Lennon.

[gafbass02]

I bought one on a whim at the offer price. Nothing much to add as Brx summed it up. They're great and need a bit of tweaking to excel. This one is much better than my last one. It came we'll set up with intonation and action just fine.
It's a great sound, looks cool and is a lot of fun.
Not sure if I'll keep it, but the faff/cost of returning would mean if be more likely to flip it on here or trade for something. Not decided yet, mainly cause every time I get rid of one I want one again!

[Machines]

My Dad has one. I find they are actually superb for chordal playing rather than as a normal bass.

But agreed the stock strings are awful and the tremolo pointless.

[discreet]

Well now I've finally recovered from the shock - after many years of anti-Fender rhetoric, I'm impressed that you've come right out and admitted the acquisition, even though it's not actually a Jazz or a Precision... will we perhaps see more Fender love from now on..? Or possibly less, now that you actually have one..??

Edited May 20, 2016 by discreet

[fretmeister]

There is a facebook group dedicate to these.

Lots of modification ideas on there.

[BigRedX]

The LaBella strings have come, but unfortunately I'm going to be busy all weekend so I won't have time to do anything with them until next week.

The plan at the moment is to remove the old strings and shim the neck before fitting the new ones. When I raise the bridge to compensate for the new neck angle should I raise the whole bridge or the individual saddles?

Then I'll give the bass a proper setup. There's a bit of choking on some of the strings higher up the neck and the relief seems a little too much right now. I'm suspecting I'll need to tighten the truss rod a bit more to compensate for the LaBellas?

There's a message on the Staytrem web site saying it is down until Tuesday 24th. Anyone know what that's all about? How does the Staytrtem bridge improve matters?

I'll report back with an update once I've done all that and see how the bass has hopefully improved.

[discreet]

Not sure about a six, but it's usual to tighten the TR a little for La Bellas on a four, certainly.

[Telebass]

In my admittedly small experience with Jaguar bridges, raise the whole bridge would be better. And replacing it and locking off the trem would be even better.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Telebass

[bigjohn]

I have one too. Exactly the same. I have some La Bella flats on it. Mine came with La Bella rounds on though, I've not had to tweak the truss.

I've thought about (though done none of) changing the bridge to the US Fender Jaguar one, so it's lockable, the Staytrem (I have the bridge on backwards to help intonate), the Buzz Stop, which increases the break at the bridge and, like you BRX, I'd like to change the tuners to some with better gearing.

However I just noodle on mine at home so I've never really bothered with the upgrades. The strings make a massive difference.

I raised my whole bridge when setting it up. The way I look at it, the bridge height does most of the work, the saddle height is for small adjustment.

And yes, chorus on it is the nuts.

Edited May 20, 2016 by bigjohn

[EliasMooseblaster]

Do excuse me if I've asked this before, but has anybody tried converting one of these to a baritone guitar? Only, doing a bit of spec comparison with Squier's VM Baritone Jazzmaster (which also seems to be quite well-regarded), it seems they have the scale length, but the Bass VI has more tonal variety, is slightly cheaper, and the trem would probably be of more use on a baritone guitar than a bass.

Not that I'd rule out buying one to use as a bass; I just have an intermittent but nagging curiosity about baritone guitars.

[gafbass02]

Reading this I just realised I have a buzz stop kicking around somewhere. I'll give it a try

[Machines]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1463751392' post='3053853']
Do excuse me if I've asked this before, but has anybody tried converting one of these to a baritone guitar? Only, doing a bit of spec comparison with Squier's VM Baritone Jazzmaster (which also seems to be quite well-regarded), it seems they have the scale length, but the Bass VI has more tonal variety, is slightly cheaper, and the trem would probably be of more use on a baritone guitar than a bass.

Not that I'd rule out buying one to use as a bass; I just have an intermittent but nagging curiosity about baritone guitars.
[/quote]

I tried a bit of djent on it, the single coils are just too weedy.

[bertbass]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1463734915' post='3053659']
The original bass player from The Hollies played one of those,
[/quote]

He still plays it but it seems to play out of tune or perhaps that was Eric Haydock not hitting the right notes. Most noticeable on Hollies tunes actually.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1463749053' post='3053817']
... When I raise the bridge to compensate for the new neck angle should I raise the whole bridge or the individual saddles?

[/quote]

After the shim, the bottom edge of the whole bridge plate should be approx quarter inch (or half centimetre) above the pickguard with no serious buzzing. That gives an effective break angle after appropriate TR adjustment and bridge saddle adjustment. It took me a few goes to get the shim correct - a small difference in shim can have a big difference in bridge situation.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1463749053' post='3053817']
...How does the Staytrem bridge improve matters?

[/quote]

It sits in the ferrules without rocking in the way that the factory bridge does.

If you were doing lots of wild temoloing this might be a disadvantage but for most people it means greater stability and the tremolo can still be used.

Edited May 20, 2016 by EssentialTension

[Ruiner]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1463751392' post='3053853']
Only, doing a bit of spec comparison with Squier's VM Baritone Jazzmaster (which also seems to be quite well-regarded), it seems they have the scale length[/quote]

The squier VM Baritone Jazzmaster uses the exact same neck as the Squier VM Bass VI (I have both and can confirm this) So I imagine you'd have no problem using the Bass VI as a baritone with appropriate strings.

[Spoombung]

I had one of these things years back but failed to make the mental adjustment needed to play it with a fresh mind. These instruments aren't quite a bass and aren't quite a guitar.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1463751392' post='3053853']
Do excuse me if I've asked this before, but has anybody tried converting one of these to a baritone guitar? Only, doing a bit of spec comparison with Squier's VM Baritone Jazzmaster (which also seems to be quite well-regarded), it seems they have the scale length, but the Bass VI has more tonal variety, is slightly cheaper, and the trem would probably be of more use on a baritone guitar than a bass.

Not that I'd rule out buying one to use as a bass; I just have an intermittent but nagging curiosity about baritone guitars.
[/quote]

Depends which Baritone tuning you want. The general standard is 28" scale for B and 30" scale for A with the appropriate strings.

I have a HB 28" scale baritone guitar and even with the heavier D'Addario set (14 - 68), I still think the low B and E strings are a bit floppy. However I favour a 52 for low E on the guitar (and 56 when tuning it down to D) so my tastes might not be typical.