Heft - from heavy amp, or from lightweight amp & pedals?

[sunburstjazz1967]

I think the downsides of using your backline as FOH far out weighs having a thin sound on stage but with a monster PA giving a nice even full yet articulated sound to the audience. A pair of RCF 745As will cost two grand and will make most pub bands sound amazing compared to trying to batter the room down from the rear corner of the room with an 8x10 and Ampeg head whilst the guitarist deafens everyone with a Marshall stack as the inaudible singer struggles with an ancient pa system but hey as long as the bass has heft what else matters. Yeah yeah you will all say that's not our band but there is one in every town every week so someone must be playing bass in them!

[FuNkShUi]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1464696116' post='3061483']
And conversely, I'm amazed that it's a characteristic that passes so many people by.

We're all different.
[/quote]

Of course, otherwise we'd all be lugging round SVT 2's right?

[Passinwind]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1464686392' post='3061350']


Heft B or Heft C?
[/quote]

The last shot they used a C sharp.

[discreet]

[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1464701606' post='3061556']
The last shot they used a C sharp.
[/quote]

I was hospitalised for fingering A minor.

Edited May 31, 2016 by discreet

[chevy-stu]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1464698570' post='3061514']
Anybody played an Orange Terror Bass and found it to lack heft?
[/quote]

It's an interesting one, as I bought a Terror 1000 about 2 and half years ago to use a spare for my 400+ mesa, and I thought it was the nearest sound wise I could find at bass direct at the time.. Tried the usual others Genz, Aguilar, etc..
Due to it's convenience I've barely used the Mesa for about 18 months, probably doing 200 gigs or so with the Terror, but I dragged it out for a gig weekend before last and was amazed at the difference. Compared to the Orange which is loud, pokey and very big sounding to me, the Mesa was so effortless and full sounding particularly in the lower sub 300hz area, which is exactly where you want it.
So yes, definite difference, but still will use the Orange 90% of the time for convenience.

Edited June 1, 2016 by chevy-stu

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chevy-stu' timestamp='1464703377' post='3061574']
Due to it's convenience I've barely used the Mesa for about 18 months, probably doing 200 gigs or with the Terror, but I dragged it out for a gig weekend before last and was amazed at the difference. Compared to the Orange which is loud, pokey and very big sounding to me, the Mesa was so effortless and full sounding particularly in the lower sub 300z area, which is exactly where you want it.
[/quote]

This mirrors my experience. I spent a few years using micros, thinking everything was OK. And then I started doing the occasional gig with more traditional heads... and each time I didn't have to be so loud on stage to feel it. It was an epiphany - like a swig of full-fat coke after a few years of diet*.

*YMMV

[JTUK]

No... I think we are all used to the compromise that people will make it terms of actually carrying the gear.

If you have NO choice, then the choice is down to playing or not playing which is a reasonable standpoint.

I don't think people thought they knew exactly what was missing, they just knew something was missing and a bit of
experimenting and messing around, or even a happy accident and the penny falls.

For example... a lot of people here will say plugging into a SVT instantly brings a smile to their face...
Do they think it is a great amp..personally I don't think it is, ..but then you only need that big output stage to
kick in to know you are onto something.
FWIW..the EQ stage is the worst thing about it... IMO, but the sheer authority of the thing saves it.

One of the reasons, I've never liked the SVT 3 ... all the bad bits and none of the BESt bits

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1464705465' post='3061606']
If you have NO choice, then the choice is down to playing or not playing which is a reasonable standpoint.
[/quote]

It's not black or white. The Walkabout, Aggie AG500 and Handbox R-400 (amongst others) aren't exactly lead sleds.

[gary mac]

A fair few of the venues around these parts, have the dreaded sound limiters fitted. Heft is a definite disadvantage in said venues

[Lw.]

@Gary_Mac - only if you're saying heft is volume, which I don't think it is. I've seen plenty of poor/boxy sounding amps trip those things.

[TheGreek]

Other than the Herts Bash (we're already doing a DI Shoot out) when's the next Bash?. Could be a good choice for a gear shoot-out - Tubes-v-SS/D Class.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1464708256' post='3061661']
Other than the Herts Bash (we're already doing a DI Shoot out) when's the next Bash?. Could be a good choice for a gear shoot-out - Tubes-v-SS/D Class.
[/quote]

That is an excellent idea... all amps through the same cab behind a curtain so it's a blind test.

[TheGreek]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1464708549' post='3061668']
That is an excellent idea... all amps through the same cab behind a curtain so it's a blind test.
[/quote]

That's normally how we do them...

[wateroftyne]

A better test would probably be a gig. Any benefits in the dynamic (imagined or otherwise!) would probably be lost in a half-empty room.

Personally speaking, I'm under no illusion - the whole concept of 'heft' is lost on the audience. It's about the tactile feedback of standing in front of your cab, feeling the notes.

[timhiggins]

I have tried a few light weight amps and although they are good for most stuff i think the elusive heft is sadly missing
I have never found one that can do reggae/dub convincingly ..they are ok for onstage monitor but using one for a gig without p.a.assistance
is to much of a compromise for me ! ...
if anyone can direct me to a lightweight amp that can get this sort of sound please point me to it..here's the sound i'm after
https://youtu.be/ItNYBBQnhKA

[dannybuoy]

So it's more a power delivery thing, and some amps just run out of power trying to reproduce big transients? And if so is that more down to Class D topology or the modern switching power supplies not being able to compete with a fat transformer? Many lump these two aspects together, referring to Class D as 'digital' when it isn't.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1464712955' post='3061731']
A better test would probably be a gig. Any benefits in the dynamic (imagined or otherwise!) would probably be lost in a half-empty room.

Personally speaking, I'm under no illusion - the whole concept of 'heft' is lost on the audience. It's about the tactile feedback of standing in front of your cab, feeling the notes.
[/quote]
Completely agree.

Indeed - the feedback you get from playing your bass and what comes out of the speaker next to you, doesn't track with the audience because they aren't involved in the playing aspect.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1464708256' post='3061661']
Other than the Herts Bash (we're already doing a DI Shoot out) when's the next Bash?. Could be a good choice for a gear shoot-out - Tubes-v-SS/D Class.
[/quote]

Great idea Mick, I`m happy to do the testing, just need some volunteers for the lifting (as a token gesture I`d carry my Aguilar Tonehammer 350).

[Lozz196]

Interesting views so far. From my own perspective, the only amps I`ve used recently that have that real "slam the sound into you" feeling have been an Ampeg SVT2, SVT3-PRO, and an Ashdown ABM (think 500 or 600). There was just a solidity to the sound that although I can get close with my Tonehammer 500 and Sansamp, it`s still not quite there, though the addition of the Sansamp has brought it [b]much[/b] closer.

[Muzz]

All I'm gonna say is the new Genzler Magellan's a helluva thing.

[JTUK]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1464705619' post='3061609']
It's not black or white. The Walkabout, Aggie AG500 and Handbox R-400 (amongst others) aren't exactly lead sleds.
[/quote]

No, but it depends where your limits start... I'd say 20 lbs for an amp was entirely reasonable as would be a 10lb bass.
Others just wouldn't entertain it... or couldn't, so that defines 'your' limits.

[JTUK]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1464713452' post='3061743']
So it's more a power delivery thing, and some amps just run out of power trying to reproduce big transients? And if so is that more down to Class D topology or the modern switching power supplies not being able to compete with a fat transformer? Many lump these two aspects together, referring to Class D as 'digital' when it isn't.
[/quote]

I think volume and the type of authority we are talking about are too different things. A TH500 is loud, but it just isn't the same.

Amp designer friend of mine will not entertain class D for his boutique amps...altho he'd love to be able to but the pricepoint seems too high for
the proper stuff, atm..?

[timhiggins]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1464719151' post='3061857']
Interesting views so far. From my own perspective, the only amps I`ve used recently that have that real "slam the sound into you" feeling have been an Ampeg SVT2, SVT3-PRO, and an Ashdown ABM (think 500 or 600). There was just a solidity to the sound that although I can get close with my Tonehammer 500 and Sansamp, it`s still not quite there, though the addition of the Sansamp has brought it [b]much[/b] closer.
[/quote] I'm using the ABM 500 with one or sometimes 2 15's for my reggae band so i will have to give the TH500 a try

[sratas]

The definition of heft varies a lot.

For me,'it's not volume or loudness capabilityml. It is that punchy forceful bass that doesn't need a buttload of nosy mids to carry and push the band. In fact, I have a great hefty tone with a mesa walkabout wich has little power andca quite compressed tone but with a great harmonic content. I have no problem being heard and sounding huge even with so little horsepower...my other heads are much more powerful and dynamic (markbass big bang, peavey tour 700) but the wa is just beastly authoritative, even trough the DI only

[Funky Dunky]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1464719151' post='3061857']
Interesting views so far. From my own perspective, the only amps I`ve used recently that have that real "slam the sound into you" feeling have been an Ampeg SVT2, SVT3-PRO, and an Ashdown ABM (think 500 or 600). There was just a solidity to the sound that although I can get close with my Tonehammer 500 and Sansamp, it`s still not quite there, though the addition of the Sansamp has brought it [b]much[/b] closer.
[/quote]

Without asking you to share your settings, would you mind telling me/us how the Sansamp helps with heft? This has got me extremely curious.