Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Morning all, After years of listening to the likes of Marcus Miller and Jerry Barnes I am on a mission to get as damn close to that dream tone as possible but I need some help guys! I am after opinions as to the the key ingredients that you need in your gear to get this kind of tone [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8PK9Z3Ww5w"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8PK9Z3Ww5w[/url] It obviously starts with your hands and been working on that for a long time with varying degree of success! Next up is the bass - Jerry Barnes uses Atelier Z with it's own preamp and electronics, whilst we all know about Mr Miller and his jazz bass and legend has it that his has a Sadowsky pre-amp in it that gives it that sound. First question, does the Fender Marcus Miller signature have a Sadowsky pre-amp in it - I doubt it. If not, you can buy them from Thomann so is it a better idea to out one of those into a Fender Marcus Miller or would it work just as well in the Sire Marcus Miller that I have? I do have a 74 jazz with an East pre-amp and have got somewhere close to the tone but no exaclt there - the other majot problem I have is that I am a 5 string player these days so have to get the tone from one of my 5's or buy a new one. Moving on to amps, apparently Jerry uses an Aguilar DB751 but for the life of me I can't see that amp getting this tone so that is a dead end and also it is too big and too heavy. So, we are into EBS and SWR area I would have thought, I have 2 x SWR Workingman's 1 x 10's and that with an old Hartke head sounded really nice with the 74 jazz and got quite close. Sadly that amp blew up 2 weeks ago and is probably not worth repairing. A knowledgeable friend on these things says that the tweeters used in older SWR stuff was comparable to that used in EBS cabs which helps to explain why they make a similar sound so I think I could work with these more and certainly 2, 1 x 10's is ok for live and rehearsal use. On to amp heads, happy to take suggestions and advice here but thinking it needs to be EBS Reidmar or HD350 but any other opnions are welcome and valued. Strings are also a key element, any advice on strings to give the closes sound would be good - I use Elixir at the moment which I know are not the brightest of strings but they are good to my fingers. The right combination of bass and pre-amp/electronics, strings, amp and cabs has to be out there to get to this holy grail of tone and I just want to find it! I am sure that its not impossible but do have to cut through a lot of the BS and marketing hype to get to the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydog Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Going back some decades now, I used a Warwick Streamer stage 1 (Seymour Duncan pickups with those odd switches), Rotosound Nickel (?) rounds 95 gauge, active preamp (whatever was standard in the guitar), Boss rack compressor, Trace Elliot AH350 mids scooped TE 2x10 + 1x18. Pretty classic growling sound, halcyon days. The other amp I fancied and tried but never obtained was SWR Red (2x10)..... As you say, much of the 'correct' sound starts in the fingers, and timing is everything. After that, it's having proper action and elasticity in the guitar/strings, then the strings themselves, PUs, compressor is key, and a rig that can cope with the top end transients as well as the shear kick drum like impact. I'd almost forgotten those times ! LD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Strings - DR HiBeams (Stainless) for sure. No signature, no nothing - straight forward HiBeams. Stainless is where this all starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I'd suggest Jerry Barnes is using his regular gear. In this clip you're probably just hearing a DI'ed jazz type bass. You can hear him switch to a regular finger style Chic bass line at about 3 mins so he's not focusing on slap for the sound of this bass. You need a good 2 pickup bass and a set of new round wound strings. As an overall comment I'd say there is no "correct" slap sound. You can fit in anywhere between Mark King and Louis Johnson. Try to find your own sound and have others want to copy you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Ok, never used them before so will give them a go. How long do they stay bright for? [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1465635399' post='3069767'] Strings - DR HiBeams (Stainless) for sure. No signature, no nothing - straight forward HiBeams. Stainless is where this all starts. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Don't agree the 751 can't do that sound...but I've seen him use GK as well, IIRC. Barnes sound is set up for his slap ..but as you'd expect, he has it all down. I think an East pre amp could do it.. you just have to find that hole in the sound from a Jazz. You need good strings, of course. But it is the Jazz bass that will get you close. For me, the trick is how you can cut the mids and that is where all your work will be. He is also compressed but that is to control his 'wild' sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Agree to some extent but when I am playing live all I can hear is the tone from my bass and back line and this is the tone that I crave. Got some good basses so guess it's just the strings and amps to sort! [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1465636942' post='3069783'] I'd suggest Jerry Barnes is using his regular gear. In this clip you're probably just hearing a DI'ed jazz type bass. You can hear him switch to a regular finger style Chic bass line at about 3 mins so he's not focusing on slap for the sound of this bass. You need a good 2 pickup bass and a set of new round wound strings. As an overall comment I'd say there is no "correct" slap sound. You can fit in anywhere between Mark King and Louis Johnson. Try to find your own sound and have others want to copy you. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1465638013' post='3069802'] Agree to some extent but when I am playing live all I can hear is the tone from my bass and back line and this is the tone that I crave. Got some good basses so guess it's just the strings and amps to sort! [/quote] This might be a silly question, but have you recorded yourself and played it back? After all, you're standing right over your bass and hearing the acoustic sound. Your audience are hearing the sound. Maybe if sounds ok out-front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Any decent round wound string brand would do, along with a Jazz Bass pup configuration. After all, Marcus and Co were getting great slap sounds long before the DR strings came along. (Although, they really are good strings) Marcus could also get great finger AND slap sound with minimal tweeking. Just rolling back the neck pup slightly for finger style. Marcus in the early 80's, with 'His' sound. Doesn't sound like very much mid cut to me. I have seen him live a few times, and his compressor does seems to work hard. http://youtu.be/rKNjKBszLA8 Studio version '81. http://youtu.be/tZntuL32_ps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Cool clips - to my ears the live tone is infinitely better than the studio tone! Does anyone know what compressor he uses live? [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1465639151' post='3069818'] Any decent round wound string brand would do, along with a Jazz Bass pup configuration. After all, Marcus and Co were getting great slap sounds long before the DR strings came along. (Although, they really are good strings) Marcus could also get great finger AND slap sound with minimal tweeking. Just rolling back the neck pup slightly for finger style. Marcus in the early 80's, with 'His' sound. Doesn't sound like very much mid cut to me. I have seen him live a few times, and his compressor does seems to work hard. http://youtu.be/rKNjKBszLA8 Studio version '81. http://youtu.be/tZntuL32_ps [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Yep and annoyingly out of all of my basses the 74 jazz gave me the closest thing to the sound I was after by a mile but just a shame it only has 4 strings! [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1465638465' post='3069809'] This might be a silly question, but have you recorded yourself and played it back? After all, you're standing right over your bass and hearing the acoustic sound. Your audience are hearing the sound. Maybe if sounds ok out-front? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 That sounds like one hell of a set up! SWR Redhead has always intrigued me too but never tried one. [quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1465634397' post='3069752'] Going back some decades now, I used a Warwick Streamer stage 1 (Seymour Duncan pickups with those odd switches), Rotosound Nickel (?) rounds 95 gauge, active preamp (whatever was standard in the guitar), Boss rack compressor, Trace Elliot AH350 mids scooped TE 2x10 + 1x18. Pretty classic growling sound, halcyon days. The other amp I fancied and tried but never obtained was SWR Red (2x10)..... As you say, much of the 'correct' sound starts in the fingers, and timing is everything. After that, it's having proper action and elasticity in the guitar/strings, then the strings themselves, PUs, compressor is key, and a rig that can cope with the top end transients as well as the shear kick drum like impact. I'd almost forgotten those times ! LD [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi 2 kenobi Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 *Thread hijack* What is the best bass for metal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZD56 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I may be wrong (often am) but I seem to recall reading that Marcus' pre-amp was a Bartolini that just happened to be fitted by Roger Sadowsky back in the day. So many requests for similar caused Sadowsky to make his own. Marcus sounds like Marcus even when he's playing Jaco tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 That story does ring a bell, he could make a £50 bass sound a million dollars. What preamp is in the Fender Marcus Miller? [quote name='LZD56' timestamp='1465644491' post='3069882'] I may be wrong (often am) but I seem to recall reading that Marcus' pre-amp was a Bartolini that just happened to be fitted by Roger Sadowsky back in the day. So many requests for similar caused Sadowsky to make his own. Marcus sounds like Marcus even when he's playing Jaco tracks. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 DRs last about 4 months for me but it depends how much you play/sweat. I've found them to be the best strings for me and do a mean impression of Marcus. A HD350 with a healthy dose of compression and pre shape engaged into some zingy speakers will get your there pretty quick. I thought you'd run a 350 with a 212 neo line at some point? With the shaping on the amp I'm not entirely convinced you'll need to much reliance on an onboard preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICbass Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) This vid will shed some light on it. An interview at the soundcheck with the man himself. I tried a redhead back in the early nineties. A fabulous sound, but much heavier than an extremely heavy, heavy thing.... on one if its heavier days. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=is0SGbUTh20 If someone can make this embed work, I'd be very grateful. Edited June 11, 2016 by SICbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 My mate had just fitted a Bart preamp to his Jazz - I agree with it being a good choice. Fitting it in a J bass could prove tight though. Routers at the ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZD56 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1465645494' post='3069895'] That story does ring a bell, he could make a £50 bass sound a million dollars. What preamp is in the Fender Marcus Miller? [/quote] I think the Fender MM signature bass has a Fender pre-amp in it. Wouldn't surprise me if Marcus had some input - he certainly seems to have had plenty into the new Sire V7 range with his name on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) [quote name='SICbass' timestamp='1465647327' post='3069920']... If someone can make this embed work, I'd be very grateful. [/quote] [media]http://youtu.be/is0SGbUTh20[/media] Copy and paste the 'Share' text, but remove the 's' from 'https' at the text start. Edited June 11, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICbass Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Much obliged Dad. Is the 'share' text something other than the normal link, because I tried that without the 's' in 'https', but it didn't work. Edited June 11, 2016 by SICbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 [quote name='SICbass' timestamp='1465655153' post='3069998'] Much obliged Dad. Is the 'share' text something other than the normal link, because I tried that without the 's' in 'https', but it didn't work. [/quote] [sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) There was a New York studio player in the late 70's early 80's, who kinda had a Marcus 'sound' before Marcus. He played on quite a lot of named albums and projects. Unfortunately passed away through illness in his mid 30's in 1991. His name was Wayne Braithwaite and an excellent Musician and groover. He composed a few hits as well. I remember reading that he used an early 70's passive Fender Jazz Bass with Di Marzio pups. (Black with Rosewood board). A thread about him here and his tone, with track listening suggestions. (post #14 worth a look). [url="https://www.talkbass.com/threads/80s-old-school-wayne-braithwaite.501903/"]https://www.talkbass...thwaite.501903/[/url] Meanwhile here is a video with him on ( miming with a different Fender by the look of it). [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAmSbg-uE0[/media] Edited June 11, 2016 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 MM will have 2 stock sounds which happens also to be the two classic jazz sounds because he pretty much defined or re-defined them in the 80's Scooped J for slap and roll off of the tone for the rear finger style... The beauty of the jazz is that it is a quick tweak to do this live if you've got the baases set up. There is no way 90% of the classic slap sounds aren't scooped and certainly MM's. You could drive a bus through them..in terms of EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICbass Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1465656977' post='3070017'] [/quote] Many thanks for the explanation Dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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