Sound Advice

[grumpyguts]

We normally use a small practice room, just enough space for Drums, Bass, Guitar, Keys and vocals + the occasional sax; very little room to move around. I'm generally happy with my sound in this space - tight and clear. But we tend to be a bit too loud.

Today we were in a room at least three time the size - I could go for a walk. However I was not at all happy with my sound - much less definition than usual.

I don't have years of experience to call on, yet to play a gig with this band - June 25th will be the first for many years. Is this the sound I can expect when moving into bigger rooms / venues?

Kit used: Hartke LH500 with Warwick WCA 1x15 & 2x10 cabs. Bass Thunder 1a with added Jazz bridge pu.

[smaz]

Where were you practicing? Being Alton, was it in Basingstoke (Swervjam?)

I'd say not to expect the same sound from any two different places, due to room shape / space / size / amp positions / whatever.

[grumpyguts]

It was swervjam - room 1. We usually go to Jamspace in Winchester.

[Phil Starr]

Your bass frequencies will be very different in different rooms. Nearby solid surfaces, like walls, will reflect the sound and reinforce the bass. There will also be lots of room resonances which will differ from room to room. You will have to re set your eq for every new room you come across.

It is also a great idea to get out as far away as possible from your speaker when setting up the eq. out in the audience if possible. Up close you won't hear the upper frequencies so well and will get a false impression of your sound.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[grumpyguts]

Looks like a learning curve ahead.. Thanks for the advice.

So I cant use this as an excuse to buy a load of new kit?

[grumpyguts]

Back in the same room tonight. Didn't plug in the 1x15, with just the 2x10 the sound / tone was 100% better.

[zbd1960]

(Hopeless generalisation) A bigger room tends to have too much bass... Rooms are often around 4 to 6 metres length or width. This is about the same as the wavelength of notes at the bottom end of the bass (and the harmonics will sit comfortably in the mid-range of the bass).

Bottom 'A' is around 55Hz, which has a wavelength of around 6m (so octave is 3m, 12th is 2m, 15th is 1.5m etc.). Plenty of harmonics are going to be around typical room dimensions (don't forget height) of around 4 or 5 metres in one dimension will have have the samUnless you can set-up acoustic treatments of some sort, usually cutting the bass a little helps.

Clean articulate bass is hard to reproduce.

Edited June 21, 2016 by zbd1960

[SpondonBassed]

Thanks Grumpyguts I'm learning a bit from this too.

@zbd1960 - On a fiver with standard tuning, what length are the waves when you hit your low B please?

TIA

[bassjim]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1465901132' post='3071927']
This is just one of those things to deal with when playing bass! No two rooms ever seem to sound the same. If you are rehearsing more than gigging then it is actually good to use different spaces as much as is practical. You can get very accustomed to one place and the sound and feel of your instrument in that room. If the space you then gig in sounds different enough it can leave you feeling all at sea, so experience of playing in different rooms is good. Rehearsing the experience as much as the material, I suppose.

Thing is, even during heavy touring with your own soundman and PA you can come across rooms which fox you sonically. Learning how to account for room variations with the tools available is one thing, but only goes so far. Flexibility under changing circumstances- and sometimes damage limitation- are important skills to have about you.
[/quote] much better than my own usual ramblings on this subject. This is so exactly and completely right. If you are looking for sonic perfection this can get really depressing for the reasons stated here. Any one can be a brilliant youtube bedroom player without the distractions of a live senario but to be able to do it loud in a band situation, in different venues of all types takes as much practice (for me anyway) on how to eq as it does just playing the bass......sorry rambling

[samhay]

>On a fiver with standard tuning, what length are the waves when you hit your low B please?

B0 ~ 31 Hz is ~ 11.1 metres (sorry - ignore earlier typo)
E1 ~ 41 Hz is ~ 8.4 m
at sensible room temperature, etc.
For reference, 20Hz is ~17 m.

Edited June 24, 2016 by samhay

[BottomE]

Get to know your EQ settings - they will really help when playing different rooms. Often the sound you hear (close to your cabs) is very different to the audience perspective. If possible get a long cable/wireless transmitter and walk into the space that will be used by the audience to gauge what it sounds like. Make sure you check your sound when the rest of the band are playing and not in isolation. This is important as many nuances in your tone get lost when added to drums/guitars/keys etc.

My experience is that often the ideal sound from the audience perspective isn't always the most comfortable to play along with unless you have a bit of space on stage to position yourself where it feels more comfortable.

[lowland]

Transposition typing there, Samhay: you remind me of me :-) I'm only being pedantic because I happened to look this up the other day.

B0 = 31 Hz (30.87).

A useful chart - [url="http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html"]http://www.phy.mtu.e.../notefreqs.html[/url]

Edited June 24, 2016 by lowland

[samhay]

Good catch.
Fixed.

[el borracho]

[quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1465942849' post='3072408']


So I cant use this as an excuse to buy a load of new kit?
[/quote]
Of course you can - any excuse is valid

[grumpyguts]

Good, cos the 1x15 is looking surplus, I think I need another 2x10. Maybe finally buy a new bass, something with 5 strings.

Oh well, actually got a gig tomorrow and in the words of Brian Johnson I'll have an arse like a rabbits nose. Probably want to sell the lot after..