Machines Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 If lemon oil was that acidic wouldn't the lemon dissolve itself ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='lee650' timestamp='1465990750' post='3072619'] I used Lemon oil for years and did find that it could dry out quickly,so id have to apply more often. [/quote] I suspect that part of the function of the mineral oil in the recipe I was given is to help prevent that. I don't know for sure since I'm not a chemist, but makes sense because drying out was never an issue for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='Machines' timestamp='1465991691' post='3072637'] If lemon oil was that acidic wouldn't the lemon dissolve itself ? [/quote] I've often wondered this about stomach acids...it can digest meat that you've eaten but not the stomach wall itself. Strange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1465990332' post='3072615'] Is it still OK to use if for squeaky lemons ? [/quote] I send Mrs. LBM to work every morning with a metal flask full of lemon water. The flask hasn't melted and Mrs. LBM comes home every evening, so I think you'll be ok. Edited June 15, 2016 by leftybassman392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1465990125' post='3072609'] I wonder if this might be a good time to distinguish between the necessity of fretboard treatments and their desirability. As to whether fretboard treatment products are necessary, well clearly opinion is divided. Be that as it may, good fretboard treatments do have a positive influence on the instrument, in terms both of playability and appearance (leaving aside their benefits to the wood - most would agree they do benefit the wood - the argument would seem to be about whether such benefits are necessary in order to enhance the longevity of the instrument). During my days as a tutor I regularly got various kinds of minor maintenance work on students' guitars - restrings, cleaning, minor setup work, etc. The brew that I referred to upthread was very good at cleaning up dirty fretboards - it gave the wood finish a bit of extra lustre and made it feel a bit nicer to play, and was very good for cleaning out the gunge that had invariably accumulated either side of the frets. It also did an excellent job of brightening up the frets themselves, making sideways movement of strings across frets a little bit smoother (this may not mean much to a lot of bass players, but techniques such as string bending and sideways vibrato are a key element in pretty much any electric guitarist's technique; clean frets are easier to move across than dirty ones.) So, is it necessary? Debatable. Is it beneficial? IME and IMO, yes, definitely. [/quote] Good question. Definitely debatable. Really it wood need proper long term reasearch. I'm surprised no one has done a study. Anecdotal evidence is that you can use real lemon oil, mineral oils, natural oil, animal oils, and natural wax and they will all work to some degree. Some undergo chemical changes and some have different drying properties which can effect wood in various ways. Woods in certain climates will benefit more than other woods. So will wood type. If we are just talking about fretboards then they undergo all sorts of atmospheres and tension changes. And will benefit from a light coating every so often. If you have a new bass it probably best not to put any product on it for a few years (unless absolutely necessary or dirty) as it will have its natural state intact or maybe have some treatment from the factory. Best just to use a damp cloth quickly. After a few years, again this depends on many factors then a quick wipe with your fav product once a year or maybe even every two years. Is likely to be the best option. I would say natural products are the way to go. I would probably stay away from real lemon oil as yes it might bring up frets lovely as its acidic but what effect will that have long term on wood or fret glue if it's strong enough to eat away corrosion. This is my theory from what I've read. I'm also going by leather care which will have some crossover to wood care oddly enough. Ear wax anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1465992183' post='3072647'] I send Mrs. LBM to work every morning with a metal flask full of lemon water. The flask hasn't melted and Mrs. LBM comes home every evening, so I think you'll be ok. [/quote] Rock on ! Cheers , I can rest easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1465991587' post='3072633'] I'm not entirely clear.. are you conceding that lemon oil is different from scented mineral oil (which was your original argument and the source of your derogatory comments) or not? While I'm here, it occurs to me that your notion of acidity is slightly at odds with mine. You do understand that there's different degrees of acidity I presume? You also understand that not all acids are corrosive in the way you seem to think? I've been using this stuff for well over 20 years: I've never had frets corrode. Or fall out. Or indeed do anything other than what they were put there to do. I've had it in contact with my skin over long periods of time (and so have my students). Last time I looked (a few seconds ago) all my fingers looked as well as can be expected from a man my age, and I never had any complaints from any of my students on that score. Here's an article that might help: [url="http://www.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_examples_of_weak_acids_and_weak_bases"]http://www.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_examples_of_weak_acids_and_weak_bases[/url] You're welcome. Serious point: if you don't want to put anything on your fretboard, that's entirely up to you. The information I provided above is correct, and changing the subject ain't gonna change that. When you've availed yourself of the relevant facts, perhaps we can talk about this again. [/quote] Yes I understand there is both. I just didn't realise anyone would be daft enough to use real lemon oil on wood I thought real lemon oil has been used as a traditional degreaser. But turns out there's a history of it. Well like history we have moved on. Yes different degrees of acidity of course it's not a strong form of acid but the fact it's used as a degreaser and cleaning agent, the fact it removes corrosion metal frets. Would suggest that at a microscopic level there's going to be no good come from anything acidic being used on a degradable substance like wood that relies on its natural oils etc which lemon oil will remove. And all the acidic oil building up under the frets, no thanks would not risk it myself. Like most things it will do a reasonable job for a while as its mixed with mineral oil. The key to wood preservative is too keep it in its natural state. Not wet it or drive in moisture or to have any chemical reactions and no stripping of its natural oils. All products are damaging to its natural state some more than others. I use linseed oil very sparingly because in my view it the lesser of evils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='Machines' timestamp='1465991691' post='3072637'] If lemon oil was that acidic wouldn't the lemon dissolve itself ? [/quote] Good question. [quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1465992124' post='3072644'] I've often wondered this about stomach acids...it can digest meat that you've eaten but not the stomach wall itself. Strange? [/quote] Isn't it protected by mucus. Mucus for fretboards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslapper Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1465990332' post='3072615'] Is it still OK to use if for squeaky lemons ? [/quote] "Lemon aid" for citrus based ailments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1466001392' post='3072743'] "Lemon aid" for citrus based ailments? [/quote] Get busy with fizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Slightly serious question. Why no lime oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='KK Jale' timestamp='1465956695' post='3072453'] Pledge is stuffed with silicone. You have been using an inappropriate product for instrument care/repair for 50 years. It is damn good for cleaning motorcycle wheels, though. [/quote] Haven't detected a problem in 50 years? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1466014630' post='3072850'] Slightly serious question. Why no lime oil? [/quote] Not sure really. It seems to have very similar properties to lemon oil (and orange oil too, which is used). Could be cost - all these oils are very expensive to produce. Maybe lemon oil is just more effective in that type of application. It could be something as simple as the aroma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1466017404' post='3072868'] Haven't detected a problem in 50 years? Blue [/quote] You would only notice a problem with silicone polishes if you ever need to have an instrument repaired using glue, refinished or touched up. Silicone is hard to get rid of and nothing much sticks to it. I've known a couple of luthiers who won't let it anywhere near their workshops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samhay Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Lemon oil is predominantly limonene - this stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonene - which is not acidic. This is also a primary ingedient in orange and lime oil (which does exist). The stuff that makes citrus fruit acidic is citric acid. You aren't likely to find appreciable amounts of this in lemon oil. >I've often wondered this about stomach acids...it can digest meat that you've eaten but not the stomach wall itself. Strange? The acid helps, but much of the digestion that happens in your stomach is due to a cocktail of protease enzymes that chop up proteins. Your stomach lining (usually) doesn't dissolve due to the gastric mucosal barrier - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastric_mucosal_barrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) [quote name='samhay' timestamp='1466081799' post='3073235'] Lemon oil is predominantly limonene - this stuff: [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonene"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonene[/url] - which is not acidic. This is also a primary ingedient in orange and lime oil (which does exist). The stuff that makes citrus fruit acidic is citric acid. You aren't likely to find appreciable amounts of this in lemon oil. [/quote] Sounds right to me. It does have the ability to dissolve exactly the kind of gunk you might find on a guitar fretboard though, which would certainly explain it's popularity in that role. Smells rather nice too. ETA: It's probably worth making the extra point that citric acid is non-corrosive anyway. Edited June 16, 2016 by leftybassman392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Note to all. Lemon oil does not taste as nice as it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I used Lemon Oil on a guitar (not bass) once and it REALLY dried out the board and even made the frets rough. It might have been a freak reaction but I will never go anywhere near it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Machines' timestamp='1466108665' post='3073466'] Note to all. Lemon oil does not taste as nice as it should. [/quote] My wife had some Body Shop chocolate facial scrub once that was a bit like that. Very disappointing. Edit: I suspect it wouldn't have been much use on my fretboard either. Edited June 17, 2016 by Painy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 This thread spurred/reminded me to contact Adrian Maruszczyk at Public-Peace for some advice on care for my new fretless Elwood L (satin body/ebony fingerboard). His recommendation for the 'board (the body needs nothing) was an occasional oil when changing strings, even - and I quote - from the kitchen, olive oil is fine. However, I have had a bottle of lemon oil for years and as the 'board looked a bit 'dry', I just slackened the strings off, pulled them aside, applied a light coat, left for 2 mins, removed the excess and gave it a final rub with a cloth; looks even lovelier now, smells good too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Old engine oil saved from your cars last oil change with transform a common rosewood board into an ebony-esque thing of beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1467135959' post='3081430'] Old engine oil saved from your cars last oil change with transform a common rosewood board into an ebony-esque thing of beauty. [/quote] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5hooO64dQc"][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5hooO64dQc[/media][/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1467137081' post='3081443'] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5hooO64dQc"][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5hooO64dQc[/media][/url] [/quote] Ha ha You'll never need Fast Fret again and all with the added bonus of being able to tell if anyone has had a sneaky go on your bass while you were taking a leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I have never oiled a fret board ever.Not once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1467406712' post='3083558'] I have never oiled a fret board ever.Not once. [/quote] Yep...just like all the basses from the 60's and 70's were generally never oiled, and yet these days, are much sought after. They also look and play as good today as they did back then. There must be a message/lesson in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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