I suck at figuring out songs by ear. Any advice guys?

[FarFromTheTrees]

I really struggle to find the correct notes. Maybe its because i'm self taught and dont fully understand the basses place within music but still, working out basslines by ear seems to be a skill I am lacking in. How do you guys do it? I find it especially hard in the lower register. How do you figure out if a band is using alternate tunings if there are no tabs or whatever out there?

I've been trying to put the bass part together for [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFJSM3kvBQ4"]this song[/url] for the last 3 days to no avail...it's especially vexing because it sounds pretty simplistic to me and well within my skill level to play.

Cheers!

[lowhand_mike]

i try and find a couple of reference notes and then flesh it out from there
this however sounds like an odd tuning and this site with some of their tabs confirms this, https://play.riffstation.com/results?q=%22Lantl%C3%B4s%22 , so i reckon youre gonna be hard pushed to nail down their tuning let alone the line

[peteb]

Right then, a number of points the first being this a skill you develop. Break the songb down into small manageable sections, say 2 or 4 bars at a time. Then before you pick up your bass sing the baseline out loud. Basically if you can sing it you can work out how to play it.

It helps if you know your scales or have a very basic understanding of modes or chord tones as it will help you to recognise patterns more easily. These are the building blocks of al music and remember that there is a maximum of only 12 notes, so there are lots of patterns that you will find cropping up in all sorts of songs.

Hope that this helps. Good luck.

Edited July 5, 2016 by peteb

[discreet]

I do it by listening to it over and over again. I mean hundreds of times. When you really apply yourself to a song forensically it changes - and inevitably the bass isn't actually doing what you (and everyone else) thought it was doing. The problem is this, your band mates won't take the time and trouble to learn the song in the same way, so you tend to get frustrated with the 'that'll do' brigade. And the guitarist, who will tell you he has learnt the song but will actually have listened to it once in his car on the way to the rehearsal. Good luck!

[zbd1960]

I struggle with this too, but in my case it's because I already read music and my sight-reading is pretty decent (not on bass ). I agree it's an acquired skill, but not one I've yet spent much time on.

It helps to learn to understand intervals and what they sound like. Start with the basics - octave, fifth and fourth (ascending and descending). Some basic music theory will help as you will understand, for example, why chords !, IV and V (tonic, sub-dominant, and dominant) are important and how they will feature a lot in your bass playing and why.

[Painy]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1467756690' post='3086047']
Right then, a number of points the first being this a skill you develop. Break the songb down into small manageable sections, say 2 or 4 bars at a time. Then before you pick up your bass sing the baseline out loud. Basically if you can sing it you can work out how to play it.

It helps if you know your scales or have a very basic understanding of modes or chord tones as it will help you to recognise patterns more easily. These are the building blocks of al music and remember that there is a maximum of only 12 notes, so there are lots of patterns that you will find cropping up in all sorts of songs.

Hope that this helps. Good luck.
[/quote]

I'm really lucky that learning by ear has always come pretty easily to me but whenever I do get stuck this is exactly the technique I use and it always works really well for me. I'd just add that literally singing just 3 or 4 notes at a time then piercing it all together once you know what those notes are on your bass can make it easier.

[blue]

When I was learning bass guitar back in the mid 60s we had to move the needle back and fourth on 45 rpm vinyl to learn songs. Indeed it was frustrating and hard.

No offence but with today's technology especially YouTube clips,tutorials and isolated bass tracks there's no excuse for not being able to figure out bass parts. Unless your trying to learn parts you don't have the chops for.

Blue

Edited July 5, 2016 by blue

[acidbass]

Try tab where available - absolutely nothing wrong with using it and I still regularly teach it as well as use it myself. Eventually your ear will develop, there are exercises to try and aid with this but it is certainly not an overnight thing.

Failing that - for working out a fast line, I find a program like Transcribe (PC) really helps. You can slow down a song and keep the same key, and also change a song's key at the same tempo - handy if you are in a band who cover a song in a different key from the original.

Hope this helps

[smaz]

I spent ages getting stressed about not being able to work out songs by ear. Why can't I do that? How on earth do I do that? I'm never going to be able to!

There was two key points for me:

1) Start easy - I learnt by playing along to The Datsuns, Jimmy Eat World, possibly even Scouting for girls. Status Quo, too.
2) Listen, then list again, then play along & listen. Start off just trying to find the root notes throughout the song, don't worry about riffs.

Then I started visualising someone playing the song/riff parts, once I'd listened & roughly worked out the root notes. Would it be played high on the neck? Does it need shifts? Does the riff go up, or down, or all over the place? I found visualising & imagining playing it the biggest help.

I also would watch youtube playalongs, see how others were doing it & try to mimic/learn from that.

It takes time, though - just like everything.

[AndrewJordan]

Just listen to it and then move your fingers around until it sounds right...........................thats what I do......

[blue]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467760758' post='3086081']
Just listen to it and then move your fingers around until it sounds right...........................thats what I do......
[/quote]

I'm not sure how well that would work for the more complex bass lines if at all.

Blue

Edited July 6, 2016 by blue

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1467756690' post='3086047']
Right then, a number of points the first being this a skill you develop. Break the songb down into small manageable sections, say 2 or 4 bars at a time. [b]Then before you pick up your bass sing the baseline out loud[/b]. Basically if you can sing it you can work out how to play it.
[/quote]

Good advice, especially the bit about trying to sing/hum the line, as is much of the rest of this thread, more than anything else though it takes practice. Theres no "trick" that can confer this ability overnight. The song you picked is actually quite hard for a beginner because of the mix although the line itself if quite simple, the bass and guitar overlap a lot. I'd get hold of say a beatles or abba greatest hits, or a hits of the 60s/70s type thing and work through it, the bass is a lot easier to pick out on most pop songs than most rock or metal.

Edited July 6, 2016 by bassman7755

[lojo]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467759059' post='3086075']
When I was learning bass guitar back in the mid 60s we had to move the needle back and fourth on 45 rpm vinyl to learn songs. Indeed it was frustrating and hard.
[/quote]

We where still doing that in the late 80s

Someone posted above about pitch being out ? I find you sometimes have to find one note by tweaking the tuning slightly , then retune, some tracks are between notes

[Lord Sausage]

You need to get used to have intervals. Play major and minor scales over and over so you get used to the sound. Then play the intervals to get used to the sound. I.e root to second, root to third, root to fourth etc. when you get used to these you should be able to hear what distance notes move when listening to something.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1467782140' post='3086128']
I'd get hold of say a beatles or abba greatest hits, or a hits of the 60s/70s type thing and work through it, the bass is a lot easier to pick out on most pop songs than most rock or metal.
[/quote]

Agreed. It's a very common beginner's mistake to aim too high. Learn to walk first.

[luckydog]

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1467757134' post='3086054']It helps to learn to understand intervals and what they sound like. Start with the basics - octave, fifth and fourth (ascending and descending). Some basic music theory will help as you will understand, for example, why chords !, IV and V (tonic, sub-dominant, and dominant) are important and how they will feature a lot in your bass playing and why. [/quote] Yes this is the essential element in playing by ear IMO: even those who do it without thinking are really using this method.

Then one can hear and recognise, even anticipate, the structure of pretty much all songs as progressions, such as 12 bars being made up only from I IV and V chords. Then it doesn't matter what key you play you play it in if you think of it like this, and from a bass playing perspective each chord has a root note and a scale to play with.

I don't know any easy web intros to the method, but there must be some. The one I do know is quite advanced and packed with theory which might be a put off, but it's Mark Levine's 'Jazz Theory'. If you ever wonder how jazzers improvise, this is the book, but the same principles apply to all music, even simple stuff.

HTH!

LD

[Lozz196]

I was in a similar position as Blue, having to keep moving the needle back on the records. Nowadays I do a search for the tab, and if there is none, then just the guitar chords. That will put me in the right place. Problem is today bass isn`t so audible in the mix due to both tone and notes much lower than a bottom E being used. Much harder to work out by ear due to that.

[Machines]

Some roots notes I know by ear (E/G especially) but when i've worked that out, it's all about intervals.

Some are easy to recognise such as fifths and octaves, but minor thirds stick out a mile to me. The more you learn also the more you will know by ear, as some songs may have similar patterns in different keys, and you just need to start in the right place.

For example - the first time I heard Tom Petty - Breakdown I knew the bassline before I was near a bass.

[ambient]

What harmony and fretboard knowledge do you have ?

Knowing the notes on the fretboard, and a basic knowledge of harmony helps loads. If you know the chords to the song, then most bass lines are constructed out of the notes making those chords, or from the parent scale. The first note of a bass line is often the root note.

If you don't have much knowledge of this, then it's maybe an idea to start to improve it,which will help no end in working out bass lines.

[PaulWarning]

I look for the tab online first (it's usually wrong but it gets you in the ballpark) then I use Audacity to slow it down and the raise it an octave, it's amazing how this brings out the bass part, then just work it out in little chunks

[chris_b]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1467756690' post='3086047']
Right then, a number of points the first being this a skill you develop. Break the songb down into small manageable sections, say 2 or 4 bars at a time. Then before you pick up your bass sing the baseline out loud. Basically if you can sing it you can work out how to play it.
[/quote]

This is how you do it.

Looking at this overall, it is a skill you have to learn and you do that by repetition and training your ear. Start with simple songs and try just playing root notes of the chords so you hear the relationship between root and 5th and 4th notes etc. Work on the structure of the number first; intro ~ verse ~ chorus ~ middle 8 etc. Sections are usually repeated so you might only have to work out half of the number. Get that right and you can flesh out the notes later. You're building up the number layer by layer.

Write the chords and breaks down.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1467757024' post='3086053']
And the guitarist, who will tell you he has learnt the song but will actually have listened to it once in his car on the way to the rehearsal. Good luck!
[/quote]

Hey, I live far enough away from rehearsals that I usually manage to listen to it twice on the way there

[discreet]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467759059' post='3086075']
...there's no excuse for not being able to figure out bass parts. Unless your trying to learn parts you don't have the chops for.
[/quote]

Obviously there [i]is[/i] an excuse - the OP says he sucks at it! And to be fair, the piece he linked to isn't your usual 3-minute rock or pop ditty with a verse, chorus, middle eight, chorus, etc - I'm great at learning stuff by ear me, and I certainly wouldn't fancy it much.

Edited July 6, 2016 by discreet

[Machines]

Learning some stuff without tabs is an utter nightmare. It's OK if you have the time and determination, but who does ? Today's digital society doesn't wait for things, if it's available online i'll use that.

I have both Songster and GuitarTapp on my phone (Android) and they are invaluable in learning common songs quickly for upcoming auditions or rehearsals in an efficient and visual manner.

[chris_b]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1467795535' post='3086246']
I'm great at learning stuff by ear me, and I certainly wouldn't fancy it much.
[/quote]

I'd write it down then playing it wouldn't be a problem, but I know getting a number with that many changes into my old brain would be nigh on impossible.