I suck at figuring out songs by ear. Any advice guys?

[bassjim]

its all in the theory i think. boring and hard to learn even the basics but if you do every thing will get so much easier. and from there you just get better because you are guessing less and knowing for a fact more. This in turn inspires you to want to know more and how it all fits together. When you put this theory plus, as Blue says, use all these Youtube vids, there is almost nothing thats beyond your reach.

no short cuts I'm afraid but it will get your ear working. another thing you could try is...put the radio on a station that plays top 40 type stuff and play along to every thing and dont worry about the mistakes. you get to see there is a lot in common from one song to the other and you may form "patterns" that you start to recognise. a lot of pop stuff uses a minor 6 or major 7 flavour and so you start to hear a common ground. if you stick at this, busking on the job becomes a lot less challenging.

is there a short cut? no.

[discreet]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1467798342' post='3086283']
I know getting a number with that many changes into my old brain would be nigh on impossible.
[/quote]

Also the bass isn't that well-defined and some of the notes at least are not at all obvious. To me it sounds like the bass line has been written (if not necessarily played), on keyboards.

[Hobbayne]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467759059' post='3086075']
When I was learning bass guitar back in the mid 60s we had to move the needle back and fourth on 45 rpm vinyl to learn songs. Indeed it was frustrating and hard.
Blue
[/quote]

I read somewhere, (Could have been Mo Fosters book) that in the 60,s and 70,s people used to play their records at 78rpm. Apparently that used to make the bass easier to pick out in the mix when played at a faster speed.

[chris_b]

Yep. You could easily hear most bass lines even in a busy mix at 78.

[joey1234]

Hey, seems like you have had lots of good advice so far on this topic and can't really add much more to it. If the bass part isn't available as a tab, I sometimes find a guitar tab and then it gives you a rough idea of where your starting point would be. If no guitar tab is available look for the chords. I am learning Brother can you spare a dime at the moment on guitar, and can only find chords but I want to fingerstyle it, so at least having the chords really helps.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1467800696' post='3086314']
I read somewhere, (Could have been Mo Fosters book) that in the 60,s and 70,s people used to play their records at 78rpm. Apparently that used to make the bass easier to pick out in the mix when played at a faster speed.
[/quote]it didn't stand out because it was a faster speed it was because it made it a higher key, today we have audacity as I mentioned earlier

[phil.c60]

Audacity is a great help with this. I struggle myself to learn things solely by ear, and especially when, as someone else said, the track is between notes. I think this is because despite it being "digital" the playback speed is not quite right and therefore the pitch is slightly out.
A classic example of this is "Baby Please Don't Go" by "Them" (Van Morrison) simple line, but which IIRC is right in between E and F which really throws you if you try and pick it out by just playing along. I was told that this is because they did indeed speed up the original recording after they made it to get the feel they wanted.

Edited July 6, 2016 by phil.c60

[paul h]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1467757024' post='3086053']
...And the guitarist, who will tell you he has learnt the song but will actually have listened to it once in his car on the way to the rehearsal. Good luck!
[/quote]

Errr....am I doing something wrong then?

[grenadilla]

yes,learn the intervals ! in all keys; ex: c to f sounds like c# to f#

[Kirky]

My normal way of learning a song is to work out the overall structure first - I listen to the song without an instrument in my hand and right down the chord structure (eg I / / / | IV / / / | V / / / | II / Iv / | etc). At this stage I don't even know what key it's in (which I find useful as the bandleader may decide to do it in a different key anyway). Having done that I'll listen to the bass part - here it's useful, as everyone else has said, to understand intervals and major and minor scales (for the music I play I don't need or want to know about modes). Singing along is good too at this stage. I might write stuff down at this stage in notation (I'll have ascertained the key at that stage, either by playing along or looking it up) - but only if it's particularly complicated. And finally I'll play along - usually I'm not a million miles away. I have been know to learn a song and turn up to practice and actually play it for the first time at rehearsal - usually with a reasonably close result.

Of course it all depends on the type and complexity of the music. One advantage of my method is that if the bandleader changes key, or changes the song structure, its easy for me to adapt.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Kirky

[JTUK]

Many popular songs have popular progressions.
You should know 12bars of course from pretty much day 1....and you should know how the 6th comes into play very very often...as in
'Stand by me..Every Breathe you take ect..

Add turnarounds on your 12 bars and learn to stack 4ths as a means to return you to your starting point.

On bass, this is easy as it is a shape you will soon recognise...so you can see and hear the relationship.
It is harder for gtrs which is why they don't often get it, relationally, unless they are taught it..so don't expect
a Gtr to teach you. However, a schooled keys should.

For bass, any decent jazz gig will show you all this...or you wont survive it.
This is also one reason why you should be playing with keys..and also with horns..
Horns will make you play and transpose into different keys so you will quickly
see/hear the need to recognise shapes.

So, you need to have a wide pool of songs to listen to and a lot of old standards...which you should have up your sleeve anyway, IMO..
will make it pretty apparent that there are only so many progressions from the 12 notes in the scale.

A good bass teacher will point you the way to these building blocks as well IMO..

[ambient]

It's a skill you'll develop over time.

However learning to play properly rather than just leaning the notes for a song is something you should aim for.

[AndrewJordan]

Just listen to it and then move your fingers around until it sounds right...........................thats what I do......

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467769001' post='3086119']
I'm not sure how well that would work for the more complex bass lines if at all.

Blue
[/quote]

Nah.....it'll work for anything............honest bud!

Actually, I was a little drunk last night when I wrote that but thats pretty much what it boils down to. It's all about the listening though! I'm actually a bit anal when it comes to reproducing bass lines and use many of the techniques already mentioned to try and get a faithful reproduction (if that's what your after). It helps if you have a decent DAW so that you can use EQ and other tricks to make the bass line more prominent in the mix and then slow down the tickier passages. Live recordings and videos can be good as sometimes the bass is a bit more prominent(not always) but they may vary from the recorded part and you can see what position they are using for certain passages. I find that TABs are just wrong most of the time (occasionaly you will find a gem) but if you are in a hurry they can be a good starting point..........But yeh, just listen to it (using the best tools you have available) and then move your fingers around untill it sounds right

[Roger2611]

I had a quick listen, sadly on my laptop I can't really pick out the bass, I couldn't find a bass TAB for it but there is a guy on Youtube doing a guitar cover, but helpfully he doesn't tell you what the tuning is, so, in a nutshell, that pretty much knackers up my way of doing things, yes, I can normally work things out by ear in the end but it is far easier to have a look at TAB for a general idea of where it goes and even better if there is a decent learn to play tutorial on Youtube you can see pretty much exactly how it is played.

You could try emailing the bands site and asking if there is a bass TAB available?

[AndrewJordan]

Just had a quick listen....sounds like fairly simple stuff. I'm hearing a low B so prob a five string in standard tuning if thats any help.

[blue]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467822744' post='3086551']


But yeh, just listen to it (using the best tools you have available) and then move your fingers around untill it sounds right [/quote]

Respectfully disagree.

Blue

[AndrewJordan]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467857887' post='3086782']
Respectfully disagree.

Blue
[/quote]

Respectfully acknowledged

[ambient]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467822744' post='3086551']
But yeh, just listen to it (using the best tools you have available) and then move your fingers around untill it sounds right
[/quote]

Seriously ?

Sounds a bit hit and miss, and quite time consuming to me,

[paul h]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467822744' post='3086551']
Just listen to it and then move your fingers around until it sounds right...........................thats what I do......
[/quote]

That's how I started out. I put on an Iron Maiden record and then moved my fingers around the fretboard until I found the notes that sounded correct. Really, isn't that just how everyone used to get started?

Now I just go to Youtube and let someone teach me

Whatever technique or methods you use, the only way to improve is to put in the time and effort. Eventually your ears get more used to spotting intervals and it does become easier. Also a grasp of very basic theory helps of course.

[luckydog]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1467882449' post='3086897']
Seriously ?

Sounds a bit hit and miss, and quite time consuming to me,
[/quote]I get where Andrew is coming from. It's not random, players have a priori knowledge of playable finger patterns and positions. Knowing the key, often there is only one sane or efficient way to play a pattern, if it has any complexity. Then applying what we already know about playing mechanics and correcting by listening can be a pretty efficient way.

LD

[ras52]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467822744' post='3086551']
Just listen to it and then move your fingers around until it sounds right...........................thats what I do......
[/quote]
[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1467882860' post='3086902']
That's how I started out. I put on an Iron Maiden record and then moved my fingers around the fretboard until I found the notes that sounded correct. Really, isn't that just how everyone used to get started?
[/quote]

Although it sounds flippant, there's some truth in the 'moving your fingers around' method. What happens is that we quickly (hopefully!) learn that moving the fingers from A to B produces interval X... then when we next hear interval X, we know that we need to move our fingers from A to B. It's all about ear-training, and relating what we hear to fretboard. Theory helps enormously, but raw familiarity goes a long way.

[Dropzone]

I normally type the song name then "bass cover" into youtube and pretty much something will come up as a good starter for 10. Often they are wrong, but normally right enough for position to get going.

[ambient]

[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1467882860' post='3086902']


That's how I started out. I put on an Iron Maiden record and then moved my fingers around the fretboard until I found the notes that sounded correct. Really, isn't that just how everyone used to get started?

Now I just go to Youtube and let someone teach me

Whatever technique or methods you use, the only way to improve is to put in the time and effort. Eventually your ears get more used to spotting intervals and it does become easier. Also a grasp of very basic theory helps of course.
[/quote]

I came at bass playing backwards I guess, so I do find some peoples ways of doing things odd, so you'll have to excuse me.

I started on violin and learned to read etc. Then switched to classical guitar and again sight-read stuff, and learned what the notes were on the fretboard. When I switched to playing bass, I assumed that the only way to play was the way I'd had with the other instruments. I expected to join a band and be given music to play. It never really occurred to me that you could play any other way. It was actually a bit of a eureka moment when a guy in a music shop that specialised in books, told me that most players just use the chords to make thier own lines. I'd gone in looking for books with printed lines in, having previously seen books full of piano and guitar chords, I just assumed there would be a bass version.

[paul h]

Youtube is an absolute godsend. I can't even comprehend how I managed to work stuff out 30 years ago...wearing out LPs by constantly moving the needle back to that tricky middle eight bit

[paul h]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1467884069' post='3086923']
I came at bass playing backwards I guess, so I do find some peoples ways of doing things odd, so you'll have to excuse me.

I started on violin and learned to read etc. Then switched to classical guitar and again sight-read stuff, and learned what the notes were on the fretboard. When I switched to playing bass, I assumed that the only way to play was the way I'd had with the other instruments. I expected to join a band and be given music to play. It never really occurred to me that you could play any other way. It was actually a bit of a eureka moment when a guy in a music shop that specialised in books, told me that most players just use the chords to make thier own lines. I'd gone in looking for books with printed lines in, having previously seen books full of piano and guitar chords, I just assumed there would be a bass version.
[/quote]

That's the beauty of all this...there is absolutely no right or wrong ways to approach things! I'm quite jealous of your musical journey...my theory is practically nonexistent and my technique is pretty weak! In hindsight I wish I had tried a more disciplined approach in my early days.