Powered Speaker / Monitor vs Bass Amp

[biro]

Ok, I know this has been discussed in the past (though I am not really succeeding in finding any conclusive info).

I have recently started playing with people again, and I am in the market for an amp. Now, I live in London, cycle or use the Tube, so something enormous is completely off the table.

As a consequence, I am thinking about a 1x12 or something like it. TC Electronic, Peavey (the Max series), and Fender Rumble 100 v3. Then, however, I thought: what about buying a powered speaker, and putting a sansamp or Zoom B3 before it, running my amp / cab combo combination? After all, I thought, one could probably get better bang for the buck in terms of wattage, though I am not entirely sure whether the W power would be reflected by the rig's volume.

Anybody has experience with this? My question, broadly, is whether something like this http://www.thomann.de/gb/ld_systems_play_12a.htm (it's literally the first one I stumbled upon) could do as well as an amp of comparable wattage such as the ones I mentioned.

Many thanks!

[chris_b]

If you are not travelling to gigs in a car, and you don't have guaranteed access to a PA system, you'll have to go light, small and powerful enough to be effective.

500 watt D class amps are between 4 and 7 lbs and the smallest, lightest and loudest cab I know of is one of the Barefaced 112 cabs.

Put it on a trolley and you're in business.

[discreet]

A 500W Class D amp and a Barefaced One10 weighs less than 10kg. I'd also consider (as you did) The Rumble V3 100W, which would be less hassle to use (no separates) and is also 10kg.

[Dood]

PA active cabinets will work - I mean, you can plug your bass in to them via the B3 and you'll be able to hear yourself as long as the rest of the band aren't too loud. Certainly the plastic box versions you have linked to will easily be swallowed up if the guitarist turns up with a 30W valve amp cranked. The other downside is that those PA cabinets aren't really designed to 'do' bass end. Great for vocals and the top end of keys maybe, but our bass frequencies require lots of energy to be heard (have girth etc) so you may be left for wanting unless it's only for monitoring purposes where you aren't bothered with not having low end.

[biro]

Perfect, this helps me quite a lot. I was a little afraid that a low-cut might have been in order with these, unless going FRFR for quite a lot of money is an option. At this point, a lightweight amp is probably the wisest choice.

My original thinking in using a powered speaker was also very much informed by the fact that I tend to use a laptop and plugins all the time, so that perhaps going into something with a flatter response would have made sense, and would have allowed me to use it on guitar too. However, I see now that the tradeoff would probably be too big for it to be a convenient deal.

Thanks a lot!

[Dood]

[quote name='biro' timestamp='1468342311' post='3090313']
Perfect, this helps me quite a lot. I was a little afraid that a low-cut might have been in order with these, unless going FRFR for quite a lot of money is an option. At this point, a lightweight amp is probably the wisest choice.

My original thinking in using a powered speaker was also very much informed by the fact that I tend to use a laptop and plugins all the time, so that perhaps going into something with a flatter response would have made sense, and would have allowed me to use it on guitar too. However, I see now that the tradeoff would probably be too big for it to be a convenient deal.

Thanks a lot!
[/quote]

I'm not sure what your budget is, but in light of the extra details, I'd have to suggest the Barefaced FR800 - I'd have one Asap if I didn't have to flog some stuff right now.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='biro' timestamp='1468337647' post='3090257']
Ok, I know this has been discussed in the past (though I am not really succeeding in finding any conclusive info).

I have recently started playing with people again, and I am in the market for an amp. Now, I live in London, cycle or use the Tube, so something enormous is completely off the table.

As a consequence, I am thinking about a 1x12 or something like it. TC Electronic, Peavey (the Max series), and Fender Rumble 100 v3. Then, however, I thought: what about buying a powered speaker, and putting a sansamp or Zoom B3 before it, running my amp / cab combo combination? After all, I thought, one could probably get better bang for the buck in terms of wattage, though I am not entirely sure whether the W power would be reflected by the rig's volume.

Anybody has experience with this? My question, broadly, is whether something like this [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/ld_systems_play_12a.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...ms_play_12a.htm[/url] (it's literally the first one I stumbled upon) could do as well as an amp of comparable wattage such as the ones I mentioned.

Many thanks!
[/quote]

IME A budget powered PA speaker like that will run out of low end headroom quite quickly, two of them stacked might be useful though. I had a "250 watt" cheap powered PA speaker that I used for rehearsals and while it sounded decent enough it was barely adequate volume wise and I only got away with it because at the time the drummer was using an electronic kit and we were playing at a very low volume.

I think your probably onto a loser seeing this as a money saving avenue, if your prime motivation was a very neutral sounding rig (and you prepared to spend a decent amount of money on it) you might get some joy though although these days there is plenty of bass gear aimed at people wanting such a sound. I was going to go this route money no object then I go for barefaced FR800 as already mentioned.

Edited July 13, 2016 by bassman7755

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='biro' timestamp='1468337647' post='3090257'] Then, however, I thought: what about buying a powered speaker, and putting a sansamp or Zoom B3 before it, running my amp / cab combo combination? After all, I thought, one could probably get better bang for the buck in terms of wattage My question, broadly, is whether something like this http://www.thomann.de/gb/ld_systems_play_12a.htm [/quote]
[quote name='dood' timestamp='1468338682' post='3090271'] PA active cabinets will work - I mean, you can plug your bass in to them via the B3 and you'll be able to hear yourself as long as the rest of the band aren't too loud. Certainly the plastic box versions you have linked to will easily be swallowed up if the guitarist turns up with a 30W valve amp cranked. The other downside is that those PA cabinets aren't really designed to 'do' bass end. Great for vocals and the top end of keys maybe, but our bass frequencies require lots of energy to be heard (have girth etc) so you may be left for wanting unless it's only for monitoring purposes where you aren't bothered with not having low end. [/quote]

It's not quite true that PA speakers aren't designed to do bass. the better ones are. They are expected to have both the bass and kick drums running through them and at similar volumes, maybe louder than the backline. What you can't expect is something to do the job for £200.

Let's say the competition is between a conventional lightweight setup and and a PA speaker. If you went the Markbass/Barefaced route You'd end up paying £900 ish. Part of this is because you are paying for something optimised for bass and part of this is because anything bass is automatically a bit specialised and made in smaller production runs.

So, the better comparison would be with something like QSC or RCF. The RCF ART712 might be a better comparison at about £500. Add in a bass pre amp and you are talking £6-700. There's a small saving because the PA speaker is more of a mass produced product and you have a much better tweeter and crossover than most bass gear. In this case the 12" driver is designed to handle bass. What you lose is having a sound deliberately coloured to flatter your bass, though you may be able to eq some of that back in.

I started out using PA speakers for my bass. It works no problem, in fact I personally liked the hi-fi sound and I'm toying with the idea of using them again.

Fundamentally though you can't have cheap, light and loud all at the same time, what you are suggesting is do-able but you'll need to invest. If there is a PMT near you then you could probably try your bass through the PA speakers.

[Dood]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1468392705' post='3090560']



It's not quite true that PA speakers aren't designed to do bass. the better ones are. They are expected to have both the bass and kick drums running through them and at similar volumes, maybe louder than the backline. What you can't expect is something to do the job for £200.

Let's say the competition is between a conventional lightweight setup and and a PA speaker. If you went the Markbass/Barefaced route You'd end up paying £900 ish. Part of this is because you are paying for something optimised for bass and part of this is because anything bass is automatically a bit specialised and made in smaller production runs.

So, the better comparison would be with something like QSC or RCF. The RCF ART712 might be a better comparison at about £500. Add in a bass pre amp and you are talking £6-700. There's a small saving because the PA speaker is more of a mass produced product and you have a much better tweeter and crossover than most bass gear. In this case the 12" driver is designed to handle bass. What you lose is having a sound deliberately coloured to flatter your bass, though you may be able to eq some of that back in.

I started out using PA speakers for my bass. It works no problem, in fact I personally liked the hi-fi sound and I'm toying with the idea of using them again.

Fundamentally though you can't have cheap, light and loud all at the same time, what you are suggesting is do-able but you'll need to invest. If there is a PMT near you then you could probably try your bass through the PA speakers.
[/quote]

I was referring to the type the OP was particularly asking about in my response. Yes, I know that PA cabs can do bass!

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1468403274' post='3090650']
I was referring to the type the OP was particularly asking about in my response. Yes, I know that PA cabs can do bass!
[/quote]

Hi Dan, yep I knew you'd know that

I just didn't want the OP or anyone else to think it was an impossible quest. Technically it's do-able but it won't be dirt cheap and he'd have to allow for a super clean sound, which not everyone likes. Whether a PA speaker is easier to carry than a lightweight combo is another issue too. I guess that if money is no object the AER Amp One would be ideal

[stingrayPete1977]

I've got a fairly big Genz Benz rig and a pair of RCF 735s I've never tried the pair of 735s as a bass amp, I can only imagine epic and heft would be even more than the Genz!