Tru-oil and slurry technique with stains

[Andyjr1515]

Hi

Just an update on some experiments I've been doing over the last couple of months.

The 'tru-oil slurry method' is a well known way of filling, sealing and providing a silky smooth satin and thoroughly organic feeling finish on natural woods. It is well documented elsewhere but in brief you:[list]
[*]Seal the wood with a coat or two of tru-oil left overnight to set hard
[*]Then wet and dry sand wet - but using Tru-oil not water as the 'wet' - to create a tru-oil/wood slurry, then wipe away the excess slurry before it sets
[*]Repeat with finer wet and dry but this time wipe off and buff up almost straight away
[*]Repeat once or twice more
[/list]
...and over two days max, you end up with a FABULOUS finish:



Until I tackled Mick 'TheGreek''s alembicesque bass, I had always assumed you couldn't use this technique for stained and dyed wood, as by definition, you are going to sand and slurry off the top surface and, surely, expose the unstained wood underneath.

For Mick's bass, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/283510-thegreeks-mystery-bass-rebuild/"]documented in the build thread here[/url] I tried the slurry method on the body to get that 'old but well cared for' look rather than pristine shiny. It worked well:




So I've been doing a bit more experimenting - this time including the necks.

I did it with a LP Dual Cut Junior 6 string electric I have been finishing (someone else's build) for my own use. This is using red ink on the mahogany body and neck and the same tru-oil slurry variant I used for Mick's:





...and then, for a pal, I've refinished his un-bound white Gibson LPJ:




...added binding and then used the same technique for an inked maple top, a stained mahogany back and a stained maple neck:







Both guitars are waiting bits but should be finished next week. That will mean I can check the final unknown - that is, will the slurry stain on the neck rub off onto the players hand when heavily gigged?

The LPJ's owner is a VERY regular gigger, so I will probably find out soon....I'll let you know.



By the way, even if it does, it is no problem - tru-oil is very unreactive with the polyurethane varnishes I use and therefore I can always satin varnish it over. Incidentally, the DC Junior is planned to be light gloss and so I have already varnished over the experiment on the body, but left the neck unvarnished:


What was obvious was how nice a base it was for sealing / varnishing....I might use that in it's own right as a preferred seal / grain fill approach.

If you've done anything similar, let me know - I'd be interested in your experiences

[ColinB]

Those guitars look fabulous. When you say "red ink" for a stain... d'you really mean red ink as in:

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1468423931' post='3090847']
Those guitars look fabulous. When you say "red ink" for a stain... d'you really mean red ink as in:


[/quote]
I generally use Diamine fountain pen inks because they have a very wide range of colours (you can buy directly off their web site including free samples) but yes, it's pen ink. Some colours are apparently not as colour-fast as others, but I have had no problems whatsoever across quite a wide range of colours.

[Beer of the Bass]

Good looking finishes there. I did an alder guitar body in green stain and tru-oil a couple of years ago and it's held up very well, although the alder is quite prone to dents. IIRC I used a water-based stain from Rothko and Frost, thinking that it would be less likely to be soluble in the oil. Are those water based inks you're using?

Edited July 13, 2016 by Beer of the Bass

[Norris]

Regarding Diamine ink, I did a series of colour fastness tests. The "Ruby" red was very good and hardly faded at all. I had much more variable results with the four different shades of blue that I tested. I ended up settling on spirit based dye from Rothko and Frost

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1468434026' post='3090936']
Regarding Diamine ink, I did a series of colour fastness tests. The "Ruby" red was very good and hardly faded at all. I had much more variable results with the four different shades of blue that I tested. I ended up settling on spirit based dye from Rothko and Frost
[/quote]
Sorry for the delay, I got a bit distracted over the past couple of days.

Is it worth outlining your experiments, Norris?

For t'others, Norris and I have been comparing notes on another forum on using ink for staining and he has gone about it much more scientifically than me . On my long, long list of 'to do's' is to write to Diamine to find out if they have any fade statistics or categories for the various colours. Personally, I have never had an issue with any type of ink I've used - and with guitars and basses that have been on my sun-soaked bedroom wall for years - but there may be issues with certain colours or certain makers.

Anyway - the experiment is more about using tru-oil with whatever stain. The Les Paul above uses Chestnut spirit stain, which is widely thought to be a woodworker's industry standard and that is the one I'll be able to get the real life gigging test results on ref whether the neck leaves a great big stain on the owner's hand once things get hot, sweaty and shreddy

[Beer of the Bass]

I had a look back over my photos from when I did the Jazzmaster body. I had remembered wrongly - it was a spirit based stain that I used. I didn't try wet sanding until I had several coats on already, as I was also a bit apprehensive of going through the stain. The colour has held just fine, and it hasn't stained any shirts. Here's a pic from several coats in.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Beer of the Bass

[Norris]

I'm certainly going to try tru oil on my next build and may well do a slurry. I won't be using stain though.

To avoid more derailment, just watch out for blue ink - red and green seem stable. If unsure go for a dedicated colour fast wood stain. It's not that expensive but have fewer shades available

[KingBollock]

Those look lovely and might well inspire me to finally get around to a project I've been meaning to do for ages.

I have never done anything with oils on wood until very recently, so I know nothing at all about it. The stuff I used was Danish oil, is that anything like Tru-oil?

I didn't use the Danish oil on a guitar, but I have got a headless Flying V that has a lovely grain on it. It was originally translucent red, but I stripped it, and after years of being buggered about with (it was purple and silver at one point (at the same time...)) a mate finally painted it banana yellow for me, but it's really badly done, so I want to strip it again and do a proper job of it with something that will show the grain well.

The wood is a pale one (don't know what it is) with a nice dark grain. I used the Danish oil on pine and I love the way it came out.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1468608375' post='3092163']
Those look lovely and might well inspire me to finally get around to a project I've been meaning to do for ages.

I have never done anything with oils on wood until very recently, so I know nothing at all about it. The stuff I used was Danish oil, is that anything like Tru-oil?

I didn't use the Danish oil on a guitar, but I have got a headless Flying V that has a lovely grain on it. It was originally translucent red, but I stripped it, and after years of being buggered about with (it was purple and silver at one point (at the same time...)) a mate finally painted it banana yellow for me, but it's really badly done, so I want to strip it again and do a proper job of it with something that will show the grain well.

The wood is a pale one (don't know what it is) with a nice dark grain. I used the Danish oil on pine and I love the way it came out.
[/quote]
Danish oil is absolutely fine. Tru-oil, in my personal opinion, is even better. It certainly seems more versatile in terms of the different finishes you can get out of it.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1468603262' post='3092121']
I had a look back over my photos from when I did the Jazzmaster body. I had remembered wrongly - it was a spirit based stain that I used. I didn't try wet sanding until I had several coats on already, as I was also a bit apprehensive of going through the stain. The colour has held just fine, and it hasn't stained any shirts. Here's a pic from several coats in.


[/quote]

Great stuff

[Beer of the Bass]

I get the impression that Danish oil varies between brands, but it doesn't seem to get that sheen on it as readily as Tru-oil does.
A further derailment; that walnut guitar in the first post is lovely! I've got a nice plank of walnut leaning in the corner waiting to be something, I just can't decide what yet...

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1468609379' post='3092176']
I get the impression that Danish oil varies between brands, but it doesn't seem to get that sheen on it as readily as Tru-oil does.
A further derailment; that walnut guitar in the first post is lovely! I've got a nice plank of walnut leaning in the corner waiting to be something, I just can't decide what yet...
[/quote]
In my view, walnut was what tru-oil was invented for