Test help required

[Bobthedog]

I need some help with some theory for my next Rockschool grade please.

Is anyone with good theory prepared to give me an hour of their time to run through the two apparently simple questions I am struggling with?

I have a tutor but do not really understand his explanations, from a practical angle he is great.

I would prefer to drive over to you (max an hour from Buckingham) for face time. Happy to pay for your time if that helps the interest.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1468623209' post='3092289']
I need some help with some theory for my next Rockschool grade please.

Is anyone with good theory prepared to give me an hour of their time to run through the two apparently simple questions I am struggling with?

I have a tutor but do not really understand his explanations, from a practical angle he is great.

I would prefer to drive over to you (max an hour from Buckingham) for face time. Happy to pay for your time if that helps the interest.
[/quote]
Hey Bob, what are you struggling with?
Maybe we can help you online.

Other than that I can help on Google Hangouts if you'd prefer.

[ambient]

I can do Skype if that's any good ?

[Steve Woodcock]

Feel free to drop me a PM.

[Bobthedog]

Wow! guys thank you and the responses are really appreciated.

Very kindly someone has stepped in locally but will come back should I prove too stupid to understand them too!

First simple question revolved around tonic chords. Even the intwerweb has not helped on that:

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]"In music, the [/size][/font][b]tonic[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] is the first scale degree of a diatonic scale and the tonal center or final resolution tone. The triad formed on the [/size][/font][b]tonic[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] note, the [/size][/font][b]tonic chord[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4], is thus the most significant [/size][/font][b]chord[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]. More generally, the [/size][/font][b]tonic[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] is the pitch upon which all other pitches of a piece are hierarchically referenced." wtf?[/size][/font]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1468669327' post='3092515']...
First simple question revolved around tonic chords...
[/quote]

That's 'tonic' as in 'sets the tone'; it might help if mentally pronounced that way (the 'ton..' part pronounced like 'tone', not as in 'gin and tonic'...). A 'C' scale has its tone set by the tonic note, ie: the 'C'... It is, effectively, the tone by which the other notes in a musical piece are, mentally, referenced, or judged, by the listener. A piece comes to resolution (and therefore sounds comfortable...) when it returns to the tonic sound, and comes to rest. Very many (not all, but very many...) pieces of music finish on the tonic note or chord. Think of major orchestral stuff, at the end going, apparently endlessly, through those repeated big orchestral 'hits' until, finally, settling on 'Ta-Dahhhhhhhh', followed by applause. That's the tonic (as in 'tone', not gin and tonic...) of the piece performing its role as resolution.

[Grangur]

See, Dad shows his true self in the end. There he was claiming to be a drummer and it turns out he IS a musician all along!!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1468674193' post='3092556']...it turns out he IS a musician all along!!
[/quote]

And there you go, you see..? Another bassist fooled. It's too easy; fish in a barrel... (Sigh... )

Edited July 16, 2016 by Dad3353

[Steve Woodcock]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1468669327' post='3092515']
First simple question revolved around tonic chords. Even the intwerweb has not helped on that:

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]"In music, the [/size][/font][b]tonic[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] is the first scale degree of a diatonic scale and the tonal center or final resolution tone. The triad formed on the [/size][/font][b]tonic[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] note, the [/size][/font][b]tonic chord[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4], is thus the most significant [/size][/font][b]chord[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]. More generally, the [/size][/font][b]tonic[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] is the pitch upon which all other pitches of a piece are hierarchically referenced." wtf?[/size][/font]
[/quote]

Have a listen to this IV-V-I cadence in C major: [url="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/IV-V-I_in_C.mid"]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/IV-V-I_in_C.mid[/url]

It consists of an F major triad (chord IV), a G major triad (chord V) and a C major triad (chord I); can you hear how progression points towards the last chord, and how things feel 'at rest' and complete when it reaches it? This is because the I chord is the [b]tonic [/b]chord. If the progression ended on chord V instead, for example, it would feel unfinished.


[b]Pitch Hierarchy[/b]

Using C major as our example again, the key of C major contains the same notes as a C major scale, i.e. C, D, E F, G, A and B. You need to understand that not all of these pitches are of equal importance.

The 'primary' pitches are the tonic, the fifth and the third[b]:[/b][list]
[*][b]Tonic[/b]: this is the 'home' pitch, where everything points back to. In C major this would be the note C.
[*][b]Dominant[/b]: this pitch is a perfect fifth (i.e. seven semi-tones) above the tonic, it [i]very strongly[/i] points towards the tonic. In C major this would be the note G.
[*][b]Mediant[/b]: this is the third degree and determines whether the tonality is major or minor, in C major this note is E (in C [i]minor[/i] it would be Eb).
[/list]

The 'secondary' pitches are the second, fourth, sixth and seventh degrees. They are defined by their relationship to the three notes above:[list]
[*][b]Supertonic[/b]: the second degree, which in C major is D, it points back down towards the tonic.
[*][b]Subdominant[/b]: the fourth degree, named the [i]sub[/i]dominant because it is a fifth [i]below[/i] the tonic. In C major this would be F.
[*][b]Submediant[/b]: the sixth degree, named the [i]sub[/i]mediant because it is a third [i]below[/i] the tonic (remember the mediant is a third [i]above[/i]). In C major this would be A.
[*][b]Leading Tone[/b]: the seventh degree, a half step below the tonic to which it strongly wants to resolve, which in C major this would be B.
[/list]

Therefore, in C major:

C = Tonic
D = Supertonic
E = Mediant
F = Subdominant
G = Dominant
A = Submediant
B = Leading Tone

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1468670615' post='3092527']
That's 'tonic' as in 'sets the tone'; it might help if mentally pronounced that way (the 'ton..' part pronounced like 'tone', not as in 'gin and tonic'...). A 'C' scale has its tone set by the tonic note, ie: the 'C'... It is, effectively, the tone by which the other notes in a musical piece are, mentally, referenced, or judged, by the listener. A piece comes to resolution (and therefore sounds comfortable...) when it returns to the tonic sound, and comes to rest. Very many (not all, but very many...) pieces of music finish on the tonic note or chord. Think of major orchestral stuff, at the end going, apparently endlessly, through those repeated big orchestral 'hits' until, finally, settling on 'Ta-Dahhhhhhhh', followed by applause. That's the tonic (as in 'tone', not gin and tonic...) of the piece performing its role as resolution.
[/quote]

Very easy when explained that way! Thank you.

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='Stickman' timestamp='1468678204' post='3092595']
Have a listen to this IV-V-I cadence in C major: [url="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/IV-V-I_in_C.mid"]https://upload.wikim...IV-V-I_in_C.mid[/url]

It consists of an F major triad (chord IV), a G major triad (chord V) and a C major triad (chord I); can you hear how progression points towards the last chord, and how things feel 'at rest' and complete when it reaches it? This is because the I chord is the [b]tonic [/b]chord. If the progression ended on chord V instead, for example, it would feel unfinished.


[b]Pitch Hierarchy[/b]

Using C major as our example again, the key of C major contains the same notes as a C major scale, i.e. C, D, E F, G, A and B. You need to understand that not all of these pitches are of equal importance.

The 'primary' pitches are the tonic, the fifth and the third[b]:[/b][list]
[*][b]Tonic[/b]: this is the 'home' pitch, where everything points back to. In C major this would be the note C.
[*][b]Dominant[/b]: this pitch is a perfect fifth (i.e. seven semi-tones) above the tonic, it [i]very strongly[/i] points towards the tonic. In C major this would be the note G.
[*][b]Mediant[/b]: this is the third degree and determines whether the tonality is major or minor, in C major this note is E (in C [i]minor[/i] it would be Eb).
[/list]

The 'secondary' pitches are the second, fourth, sixth and seventh degrees. They are defined by their relationship to the three notes above:[list]
[*][b]Supertonic[/b]: the second degree, which in C major is D, it points back down towards the tonic.
[*][b]Subdominant[/b]: the fourth degree, named the [i]sub[/i]dominant because it is a fifth [i]below[/i] the tonic. In C major this would be F.
[*][b]Submediant[/b]: the sixth degree, named the [i]sub[/i]mediant because it is a third [i]below[/i] the tonic (remember the mediant is a third [i]above[/i]). In C major this would be A.
[*][b]Leading Tone[/b]: the seventh degree, a half step below the tonic to which it strongly wants to resolve, which in C major this would be B.
[/list]

Therefore, in C major:

C = Tonic
D = Supertonic
E = Mediant
F = Subdominant
G = Dominant
A = Submediant
B = Leading Tone
[/quote]

Wowser, thank you too. It will take me some time to take all that in, but evidently a true comprehensive explanation. Will print off to read through tonight.

[Dad3353]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485]

[zbd1960]

Might be worth buying Eric Taylor's books, the 'AB Guide to Theory' volumes I and II. These are small books and cover the theory needed for the ABRSM up to grade 5. They used to be about a fiver each (OK [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/AB-Guide-Music-Theory-Vol/dp/1854724460"]here's[/url] link).

Good explanation above. Once a tonal centre has been extablished (e.g. C major) then the tonic is the 'home' and is where the music wants to return to and settle and ultimately finish. Certain chords built on other degrees of the scale, such as V - which would be G in the case of C, have a strong pull back to the tonic.

The sequence of chords that lead to a close is called a 'cadence' and comes from the Italian word meaning 'to fall' and that is because the bass note in the chords in a cadence usually 'falls' to the tonic. So, in the case of a 'full close' we have chord V => chord I which is G to C and the bass would fall from the G above down to C.

There are various types of 'close' (cadence) and chord V to I is one of the most common ways of ending a section or an entire piece of music. There are others.

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1468793672' post='3093416']
Might be worth buying Eric Taylor's books, the 'AB Guide to Theory' volumes I and II. These are small books and cover the theory needed for the ABRSM up to grade 5. They used to be about a fiver each (OK [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/AB-Guide-Music-Theory-Vol/dp/1854724460"]here's[/url] link).

Good explanation above. Once a tonal centre has been extablished (e.g. C major) then the tonic is the 'home' and is where the music wants to return to and settle and ultimately finish. Certain chords built on other degrees of the scale, such as V - which would be G in the case of C, have a strong pull back to the tonic.

The sequence of chords that lead to a close is called a 'cadence' and comes from the Italian word meaning 'to fall' and that is because the bass note in the chords in a cadence usually 'falls' to the tonic. So, in the case of a 'full close' we have chord V => chord I which is G to C and the bass would fall from the G above down to C.

There are various types of 'close' (cadence) and chord V to I is one of the most common ways of ending a section or an entire piece of music. There are others.
[/quote]

At this rate I could become quite the expert. Thank you. Interestingly (or not) cadence is the term cyclists use to talk about peddle rotation speed

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1468881452' post='3094083']...Interestingly (or not) cadence is the term cyclists use to talk about peddle rotation speed
[/quote]

Allow me to doubt that, unless they're taking it in turns to distribution their dope..?

[zbd1960]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1468881452' post='3094083']
At this rate I could become quite the expert. Thank you. Interestingly (or not) cadence is the term cyclists use to talk about peddle rotation speed
[/quote] Yes, cadence is one of those words that has a number of [url="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cadence"]senses[/url]...

Edited July 19, 2016 by zbd1960

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1468881682' post='3094088']


Allow me to doubt that, unless they're taking it in turns to distribution their dope..?
[/quote]

From Wikipedia and my experience as a former racing cyclist:

In cycling, cadence (or pedalling rate) is the number of revolutions of the crank per minute; roughly speaking, this is the rate at which a cyclist is pedalling/turning the pedals. Cadence is related to wheel speed, but is a distinct measurement.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1468927205' post='3094341']
From Wikipedia and my experience as a former racing cyclist:

In cycling, cadence (or pedalling rate) is the number of revolutions of the crank per minute; roughly speaking, this is the rate at which a cyclist is pedalling/turning the pedals. Cadence is related to wheel speed, but is a distinct measurement.
[/quote]

Indeed, but (from the OED...)...

To peddle

1 - Try to sell (something, especially small goods) by going from place to place:
[i]He peddled printing materials around the country[/i]

1.1 - Sell (an illegal drug or stolen item):
[i](as noun peddling) Youths involved in drug peddling[/i]

1.2 - Promote (an idea or view) persistently or widely:
[i]The giant con that has been peddled in the Conservative press[/i]

[i] [/i]

Edited July 19, 2016 by Dad3353

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1468927786' post='3094351']


Indeed, but (from the OED...)...

To peddle

1 - Try to sell (something, especially small goods) by going from place to place:
[i]He peddled printing materials around the country[/i]

1.1 - Sell (an illegal drug or stolen item):
[i](as noun peddling) Youths involved in drug peddling[/i]

1.2 - Promote (an idea or view) persistently or widely:
[i]The giant con that has been peddled in the Conservative press[/i]

[i] [/i]
[/quote]

Aha! I now see the issue.