One tone to rule them all

[FinnDave]

My nightmare would be nothing but harmonicas.

[stingrayPete1977]

Harmonicas are no problem imo, it's the twats that stand there blowing in them that cause the trouble!

[machinehead]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1468767173' post='3093182']
On the face of it maybe... but I've lost count of the number of times when a band has mentioned how good it was to have a foundation to
play on..and when I ask what their bass player is using, I'm not surprised at the answers..or the problem.
[/quote]

What were the answers.. and the problem?

Frank.

[Bilbo]

Another ' adjust it to the room and then leave it' guy here.

[luckydog]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1468786133' post='3093334']
My nightmare would be nothing but harmonicas.
[/quote]

It warped my fragile mind sitting through a harp player's soundcheck as he made tiny amp adjustments that as far as I could tell made no difference. 20 minutes later he was happy. Jeeps. Then when came on stage, without even listening to a sound, he twiddled the settings.............


I suppose that is on topic here, there are the twiddlers and there are the leavers..............!

LD

[chris_b]

My Berg 12" cabs were the best for set and forget.

I used to fiddle for 30 secs when there was a new amp and then I didn't touch the rig again. Even EQing to the room was unnecessary after that. A little 1 or 2 plus or minus click on the volume and tone on the bass and I was fit to go.

I'm missing the simplicity.

[KevB]

P bass now my main gigging bass and has been for a few years. Before that it was a jazz but it was an S1 jazz which I always used with the S1 switch depressed so almost a P anyway. Current band does a few songs in lowered tunings so I now have the jazz back, tuned D-G-C-F, to cover those and the majority of the set still on the P. They are both butterscotch blonde so I doubt most of the audience notice I've even swapped. I prefer tone tweaks with the bass tone knob rather than amp fiddling, quicker and easier. I need the change in tone to be heard, we don't play subtle stuff

[JTUK]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1468792376' post='3093410']
What were the answers.. and the problem?

Frank.
[/quote]

The problem was that the bassplayer EQ'd the bass and rig for him. This is fine...and one I'd go with..
until he misses the point that the sound he has gone for does not do the basic role of the bass..which is to support the band.

The problems are he wants a sound that cuts through so he can hear. The problem with that is no foundation, possibly.
The answer is a P-Bass as that is what that bass does... you have to try pretty hard or be clueless to stuff that up.

The reason why the P-Bass is the bass of choice of so many..and is still the benchmark for the sideman after ALL these years is because
Loo got it right and understood. There is no need tor re-invent the wheel

Of course, it is entirely possibly to use another bass for this job but you need to understand and get what the bass needs to do..and also need to know it is doing it.
You wont get any argument off a sounman or studio if you turn up with a P... If you can make your other bass do that role, then that will work...but if it doesn't... he'll be thinking and likely saying...do you have a Precision.

If bands have problems with their bass player..it is because he doesn't get the sound thing.
Gtrs want a bass to support THEM... so they'll have a P-Bass all day in your hands.
Bass leaders just do not want a sound issue at all... so they'll be pleased with a P.

I'm trying to not say... a lot of basses are too complicated for the band situation and for the bass players.
I'm trying to not say the signal chain is more complicated that it should every be..
I'm trying to not say that the average bass player is not on BC -where they are all the tech heads who sort all the band sound out, but
I'm not sure about that either.

Cutting through the mix is the biggest myth around atm.. IMHO.
That only every works if you have a reference out front backing it up...

The 'problems' I've come across lately have been Bass sees a bass player he likes and copies that exact rig... doesn't know how to EQ his kit but the sound must be in there somewhere, right..?
Buys the same bass..plays the same songs..?

Buys a pedal board to further complicated and potentially downgrade the signal chain.
Basically the player..and there are more than you'd think..IME.. totally misses what he is supposed to for the band..
It starts there and then his equipment tends to compound it.

IMHO, of course.

[machinehead]

Thanks JTUK. That's a very comprehensive answer.

I think I agree with all your points. For years every time I heard a bass sound that I liked and that seemed to fit with the band, it was a Precision. Not that other basses were bad but, even before I knew what bass was being used, when I liked it it was usually a Precision.

I have a 2008 P. It's a great bass but has hardly been played. The same with my 51RI. I love them both but somehow I've gravitated to the feel of a Jazz bass.

Last year I bought an American Standard Jaguar. This has a P & J pickup and switches between them rather than two volumes or blend knobs. It has a Jazz neck. I use it 90% on the P pickup and adjust the volume and tone to suit.

So really, I'm back to "One tone to rule them all", although in my case it's not an actual Precision.

One thing I have noticed though is that a Jazz neck pickup sounds a little deeper than a Precision which sounds slightly more middy. That's not that noticable when the band's at full tilt so it matters very little to me. Maybe if you're recording it would matter more?

Frank.

[Machines]

Much of this is assuming that all bassists limit their operations to the criteria of a normal 4 piece band, or even play in a band at all.

Some of us are bedroom dwellers and just like to play with our knobs.

[stingrayPete1977]

Unless you play 70s bar band rock you should be in the basement anyway.

[KevB]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1468848063' post='3093726']

One thing I have noticed though is that a Jazz neck pickup sounds a little deeper than a Precision which sounds slightly more middy. That's not that noticable when the band's at full tilt so it matters very little to me. Maybe if you're recording it would matter more?

Frank.
[/quote]

Did you try an S1 jazz at all? I play mine with the parallel/series switch engaged and it does give it some oomph.

[Dad3353]

I'm surprised, reading all of this, that Sir Macca ever got anywhere at all. A Precision is all there is in the Bass World..? I'm only a drummer, so I wouldn't know, of course, but I still say 'Poppycock', so there. You really are a funny old lot, sometimes.

[machinehead]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1468849572' post='3093740']
Did you try an S1 jazz at all? I play mine with the parallel/series switch engaged and it does give it some oomph.
[/quote]

I haven't Kev but there's a series/parallel switch on my US Jaguar and it sounds massive!! I'd imagine it would be the cheapest and a very effective mod for a Jazz bass thought too. I might try it on mine.

Frank.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1468851839' post='3093763']
I'm surprised, reading all of this, that Sir Macca ever got anywhere at all. A Precision is all there is in the Bass World..? I'm only a drummer, so I wouldn't know, of course, but I still say 'Poppycock', so there. You really are a funny old lot, sometimes.
[/quote]

He played a Hofner at not a discerning time... but it was still a pretty bassy bass. They have no other tone. cabs were pretty average too..? and bass amps in general)
Plus, like a lot of doublers, needs a small bass which the Hofner is.


He moved to a Rickenbacker pretty quickly when he had to go back out on the road in the 70's tho.. and had pretty much given up live with the Beatles by '67 which were probably the Hofner years.

But the other...more pertinent element here is self mixing.
If you haven't got someone out front, you need your stage sound to match the FOH sound. Subs will automatically beef up the foundation but if you don't use FOH then your stage sound is your 'FOH' as it were.

This is where it is most critical that you underpin the band with your sound..because if you don't, no one else will.

And...I have to say this is where small bass cabs/amps and weak basses can let the band down. I think.

[JTUK]

I understand the can of worms here..and how we then get into singles and passive and tone etc etc ... :lol;

[luckydog]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1468849158' post='3093732']
Unless you play 70s bar band rock you should be in the basement anyway.
[/quote]I thought pages of discussion eventually resolved it was the attic ?

[machinehead]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1468851839' post='3093763']
I'm surprised, reading all of this, that Sir Macca ever got anywhere at all. A Precision is all there is in the Bass World..? I'm only a drummer, so I wouldn't know, of course, but I still say 'Poppycock', so there. You really are a funny old lot, sometimes.
[/quote]

Haha. You are right of course. Almost any bass will get an acceptable sound but over the years the Precision has been most the pleasing to my ears when I've heard one in a band.

Mind you, a good player is far more important than a good bass guitar in my opinion.

Frank.

[JapanAxe]

Just to be clear, this was never meant to be a P-bass crusade! It works for me but it may not work for you.

[Dad3353]

Of course one bass is fine for a great many (most..?) folks. I spent several years with my Verithin into a Fender Bassman 50w and 2 x 15, our youngest now plays our Douglas (yes, I know..!) sixer fretless, Hiwatt 200w into HH 2 x 15 horn cab. We have a bass floor pedal gathering dust, as we find that 'one size fits all', and have never had complaints (rather the opposite; we're often complimented on the bass sound...). Our repertoire is varied, the guitars do the 'heavy lifting' tonally, and have racks and all to cope, including swapping when they feel it's required, but the bass remains the same. RATM, Jeff Buckley, AC-DC, the Floyd, Muse... they all sound good.
As an aside, I have also been playing the same drums for nigh-on fifty years, now. All sorts of gigs , bands and orchestras. I've never felt the need to have a Ludwig Oyster Pearl kit, but have never needed to change kit for salsa, rock, folk, pop, waltzes... One kit (as long as it's a good'un...) does it all, and it's the same with basses for most players. I'll admit that, for getting a 'tribute' sound, or for deliberately wanting to create something especially 'out there', there are many reasons for changing instrument, but for the most part, any decent bass will do a darned good job in the right hands.
Not likely to be popular with those following trends or fashions, I know, and maybe a blow to the global economy, but that's how I see it. Yes, a 'P' is fine. So is a 'J', or an Ibby, or a Riccy, or ... Snobbery is not (yet...) dead,though.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Dad3353

[JTUK]

Camco, Rogers, now you are talking.

But yes, it isn't the only bass out there but my point is that it should be for a lot of players.
I started my comments by saying or meaning that if I hear a band with a weak bass sound
then it is very very likely not a P bass on the gig.

When I depped recently the gtr was lamenting his regular guy had sound problems... amongst other things, and I said I agreed and also
said 'he should get a P' and then how we laughed.

You hear this a lot but the guy would never admit/agree he needed one... which is his core problem, IMO.
He doesn't get that his bass sound is weak and therefore the band sound is weak..as a starter.

[JTUK]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1468860625' post='3093863']
Just to be clear, this was never meant to be a P-bass crusade! It works for me but it may not work for you.
[/quote]

I quite agree and don't use one... but I can get quite close and my sound is 'Fender'

I've done 'modern/modern as opposed to jazz/modern and even gone so far as some wouldn't have a non-fender
on the gig...

[Number6]

I like my Fender Precision but i also like my non Fender Jazz and my non Fender PJ.

For gigging though my Precision is my bass of choice. Just simple controls and a decent solid tone.

[spectoremg]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1468851839' post='3093763']
I'm surprised, reading all of this, that Sir Macca ever got anywhere at all. A Precision is all there is in the Bass World..? I'm only a drummer, so I wouldn't know, of course, but I still say 'Poppycock', so there. You really are a funny old lot, sometimes.
[/quote]And that waster Chris Squire - if he'd used a P he might have got somewhere.

[stingrayPete1977]

If only someone had told Bernard Edwards, or Flea or Mark King or Nicky Sixx etc etc etc etc etc..... lol