Double bass in popular music - Inaccurate stigma

[henrywillard]

Hi all,

A bit of a different thread topic, but I wanted to open this topic up and hear if anyone else has experienced the highly frustrating, and in my opinion, very inaccurate stigma attached to the double bass in popular music.

I am referring to the mentality & opinion of so many, that if you want a 'full band' pop/rock set-up (four/five piece etc), then the double bass is automatically disregarded in favour of electric bass, because double bass is an 'acoustic instrument', best resigned to mumford & sons cover bands, folk duo's, jazz clubs & orchestra's.

I am experiencing this mentality more & more, and it is so incredibly frustrating, and an opinion that personally really grinds my gears.

The reason for starting up this thread comes off the back of me missing out on a well paid UK tour later this year with a relatively well-known UK pop star, despite playing a show with him earlier in the year and being told by his management that the tour was 99% mine.
Despite the entire 30-date tour being billed as an 'Acoustic Tour', it seems his management have now decided to opt for a four-piece backing band as opposed to a trio (which included a drummer, keys, & myself on double bass), simply because they wanted a 'full band' sound, so have added a guitarist and brought in an electric bass player.

This grates on me immensely, that the double bass is seen as an instrument only useful for acoustic trio's and folks bands in popular music. (check out [url="https://youtu.be/sKzy8q24EY0?t=53s"]Barenaked Ladies[/url], who break down the stigma)

I would be very interested to hear anyone else's thoughts & experiences, and hear if anyone has experienced anything similar.

Henry

Edited July 20, 2016 by henrywillard

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Creative musician - 'I could find a use for any instrument in any genre'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwI0gbGEyuI

Music business person - 'Visual presentation is high priority, let's stick to what the audience is going to expect to see'

If you flipped the situation around somewhat, if you were a spandex clad 80's poodle rock guitarist toting a day-glo BC Rich, would you get hired for a gig playing straight ahead jazz(regardless of your ability to play the music)?

Acoustic double basses make a huge visual statement that comes with lots of associations - the entertainment industry is pretty conservative and formulaic and the higher the financial stakes, the less likely anyone is going to be willing to depart from accepted tried and tested formulas.

[Marc S]

Sorry to hear your sad findings, and losing out on a tour Henry.
I say this, not being a professional DB player, or bass guitar player mind you
But I'm in several bands & duos etc. Personally, I find for various reasons lately, I'm not playing much DB

However, a couple of the bands (one I'm regularly playing with) seem to want me to play DB on a few songs or one of 2 sets
They're actually attempting to get me to introduce DB on more gigs! Again, they may be thinking of giving one set more of an "acoustic feel", but I think it's largely because in pub bands you don't see many DB players - they want to introduce something different...

Interesting question. I await more players findings
Hope you pick up another tour soon mate - chin up

[chris_b]

[quote name='henrywillard' timestamp='1468996821' post='3094881']
I would be very interested to hear anyone else's thoughts & experiences, and hear if anyone has experienced anything similar.
[/quote]

That's management companies for you.

I know of a bass player who was kicked out of a band because the manager though he looked "ugly" and a guitarist who was deemed too "fat" by management and fired.

I know I've lost a gigs because I don't play double bass. I'm an old codger, locked into a comfy rut, but as a young pro I'm surprised you don't double.

[bobmartin]

When you say "well paid", in my experience that means before all of commissions and charges etc are taken out. You might be well rid of this gig..

[Huge Hands]

I have the opposite problem. As a bass guitarist who has picked up a DB (I have not been taught properly), I am in a band playing 1950's/1960's blues and soul covers, and they only want the DB. Although I try to point out that in some cases, original was done on a bass guitar and I'd be much more comfortable/better at playing it with the guitar, they want the DB because of the cool look!

[stingrayPete1977]

The audiences we play to like the look of my upright more than the sound of it when I start playing it!

I'm not sure if a double bass for a whole set of pop songs with a full electric band would work though, a mixture of both would be ideal and a good reason for anyone starting out looking to be a session pro to learn both, I can see gigs being lost both ways to a guy/gal that doubles.

[henrywillard]

Thanks everyone, some really kind words, and all really good feedback, with points both sides of the argument.
I'm from an acoustic guitar background which I've played for 21yrs now, and after dabbling, made the switch over to double bass as my major around 7yrs ago. I was never an electric bass player, and never had any interest in it, but I instantly fell in love with the double bass.

SubsonicSimpleton, you make some very good points from the Management's point of view, to be fair.
I did go down very well with this chap's fans, however in the gig I played back in April, who were all over social media raving about the sound, and the look of the double bass. Management clearly thought otherwise.
Without going into too much detail and just posting a rant that looks like a cry for attention, my anger at this particular situation has been escalated by the Management ignoring my calls & voicemails when I was trying to get an update (so I could finalize my diary for the coming months), texting me saying "I'll call you back in a while", and receiving no call, and then me actually only finding out I'd been dropped by noticing the tour manager, keys player & drummer checked into a rehearsal studio in London with a guitarist and electric bass player, rehearsing for an 'Autumn Tour'. I put two and two together, and messaged the tour manager asking if he could confirm the rehearsals were for the tour I was supposed to be on, and he confirmed they were. His Manager still hasn't had the decency to contact me & tell me I was no longer on the tour. I had to find out through spotting a Facebook post.
Very poor all round, and highly frustrating.

Keep the feedback and any other stories coming. It's interesting to hear others experiences.

[stingrayPete1977]

Well you are certainly in a better position than most of that wanted to double where I think the majority of us started with elec bass then bought these huge difficult to play wooden lumps later, all you need is a bass and a gig bag and your ready to go! :-)

[TPJ]

Hey Henry, sorry to hear about your situation. Agents really can be awful and there seems little we can do about their ways. I had a similar experience when touring with a big musical and only took the job on the proviso that if it went into the West End I would be kept on. It went into the West End and the MD was calling around trying to replace me just because "he wanted a change". Luckily there was a network of very nice people that helped me keep my job mainly because they all disliked the MD! Karma I guess Stick at it. As mentioned, you may have more chances being a doubler, but if BG doesn't interest you, then at least you're doing it the way you want.