blue Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469199123' post='3096591'] I really don't care if it's a cover or a cover band or if it's original (which I very much doubt) or a so-called originals band. I only want to know do I like it. [/quote] I'll post a thread regarding what people like and care about in the not to distant future. Blue Edited July 22, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1469199331' post='3096597'] I actually posed this question to set up and gather data for a future thread. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfox Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469199711' post='3096608'] [/quote] I'm sorry I can't relate to that piece of art, it must of been done before my time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1469198602' post='3096581'] OK then - IMHO a cover band is any band who performs a song that was recorded and released by someone else first. [/quote] [quote name='blue' timestamp='1469199041' post='3096588'] That's a good basic definition. Blue [/quote] No it's not. Several of Carole King's biggest hits were first recorded and released by other artists. When she released her own self-penned songs later, are you seriously suggesting that made her a covers act? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 4 pages for this! Wow! It's basic and has been answered countless times in this thread, people playing other people's songs are covering it. If most of the repertoire is covers then they are a cover band. People writting their own songs or having songriters creating material specificaly for them are doing originals. Simple! Nothing to see here, move along and close the thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469201232' post='3096635'] No it's not. Several of Carole King's biggest hits were first recorded and released by other artists. When she released her own self-penned songs later, are you seriously suggesting that made her a covers act? [/quote] Thought we were getting somewhere...you make a good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I'm gonna take my own stab at this - based on the UK specifically A cover band is [i]typically[/i] used to refer to an amateur / semi professional outfit that plays almost exclusively songs that are not their own A cover band can be [i]genre specific [/i]and sometimes a genre specific cover band will call themselves a tribute - eg "80s tribute" or "Ska tribute" A function band is [i]typically[/i] used to refer to a more professional outfit that will[i]usually [/i]play a variety of genres - funk/pop/soul/reggae/rock all in one night. This is the haunt of most professional musicians in the UK, and is one of their main sources of income (along with teaching instruments). At the higher level, function bands are often playing as per the record in terms of arrangements, and [i]are more likely [/i]to use deputies to make sure they fill a gig. A higher level of professionalism and ability is expected. A tribute band is typically used to refer to a group that plays just one artist/band but whom they have no association with. (ie Neville Staples regularly gigs round here - he is NOT a Specials tribute as he has links to the original recording) A function and tribute band both also count as cover bands, but generally a different wording is used to differentiate the level of professionalism/money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469196863' post='3096542'] Good thing you don't go in for sweeping generalisations, in't it? So ... tell me about [i]Hound Dog[/i]. [/quote] We used to do this one with Jenny, always announced it as a Big Momma Thornton song (though written by Lieber and Stoller). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) There are originals bands who have shed all (or all but one) of their founding members along the way. There are also bands which explicitly or otherwise lay claim to being the original band yet there is more than one working band with original members playing the original material, e.g. Saxon (as fronted by Mr Biff Byford) and Dawson / Oliver Saxon. Or the [i]two[/i] Wishbone Ashes. Who is covering (or tributing) whom? Then there is Dr Feelgood who comprise [i]none[/i] of the original members but are - instead - a sort of Trigger's broom. They perform covers of original songs written by other people (dead and living) who [i]were[/i] in the band and covers of songs popularised by the band in its previous incarnations but written by people who were [i]not [/i]in the band and are mostly dead. The current Dr Feelgood therefore not only play covers of the original Dr Feelgood's originals but also play covers of cover songs popularised by the - er - original Dr Feelgood. Are Dr Feelgood a tribute act to [i]themselves[/i] when they're playing 'Back In The Night' but a covers band when they're playing 'Riot in Cell Block #9'? What might happen were Dr Feelgood to cover the song 'Dr Feelgood' in the style of blues pianist Mr Willie Lee 'Dr Feelgood' Perryman (1911-1985) does not bear contemplation. It's probably like 'crossing the streams'. Total protonic reversal might ensue. [size=3]NB: Mr Perryman originally went out as 'Piano Red', changing his performing name to Dr Feelgood in later life, thus opening the possibility that the band Dr Feelgood could cover the other Dr Feelgood's original song but which was written by him when he was Piano Red and also performed by him when he became the 'other' Dr Feelgood except that Mr Perryman was the [i]first [/i]Dr Feelgood which means the band originally known as Dr Feelgood should be designated the 'other' Dr Feelgood, therefore making the current Dr Feelgood the 'other other' Dr Feelgood. You're welcome.[/size] [color=#ffffe0].[/color] Edited July 22, 2016 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1469202342' post='3096649'] 4 pages for this! Wow! It's basic and has been answered countless times in this thread, people playing other people's songs are covering it. If most of the repertoire is covers then they are a cover band. People writting their own songs or having songriters creating material specificaly for them are doing originals. Simple! Nothing to see here, move along and close the thread... [/quote] The thread may well have become tedious for some Bass Chatters but that is not sufficient justification for us to close it down. The suggestion to move along should be heeded for those that are bored with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1469142477' post='3096158'] I'm a year into playing for a living. I'm in a bar band. I have a mortgage and bills and I'm making our with no help from anyone. Blue [/quote] Well done. Without being cheeky about your age, it is a brave thing for anyone to do but I have to admire it as a transition into retirement and I am hoping for something similar for myself. I am not certain about my ability to hack it where paying customers are concerned however. That's a good bit down the road yet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1469198717' post='3096584'] Once we have concluded this section of the debate, we shall move on post-haste to discussing a philosophically rigorous definition of "a band." [/quote] Wake me when they're passing the After Eights 'round please? Nah... What I thought of as a simple notion, the cover band, has become a good deal richer in my understanding as a consequence of this thread. Not sure why the OP is getting slagged for it. I am hoping that it is intended as endearing banter. Anything else would be disruptive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1469189073' post='3096446'] I don't think the 'made famous' bit is relevant when it comes to covers. There are plenty of examples of a cover version being more famous/successful than the original, e.g. Clapton's Cocaine, Lynyrd Skynrd's Call Me The Breeze are both covers of JJ Cale songs, but I'd be the majority of listeners don't know that. We're over-complicating things. A cover is simply any song not performed by the original artist. No qualifications needed really. [/quote] Yes I put the (made famous) part in brackets because I really meant that the song has been tested pretty well on the public before being released. Music is a product pretty much like any other, most products go through some kind of consumer tresting before going into major production. AFAIK music doesn't really, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair. Playing songs that have already met with appreciation is a lot easier than trying to convince an audience to listen to tunes they've never heard before. Plenty of originals bands and singers (who are not writers) have played non original tunes. I'm guessing there's a point at which you define your band as an originals band and make a statement like "We're an originals act but we're happy playing covers, whilst it's not our main aim." Or "We're a covers band but we throw in a few tunes we've written ourselves." Tribute acts are simply covers bands who only play covers by a particular artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1469206019' post='3096690'] Wake me when they're passing the After Eights 'round please? [/quote] The After Eights. Great name for a cover band. They could all wear brown and white uniforms and start every song with '5-6-7-8' Apart from Mr Wilson Pickett's 634-5789. That would be confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 It's horses for courses. For me, a covers band is a band that does covers. There are variations within that but, like all genres, there are sub genres. Covers bands who are accurate reproductions, bands who expand their covers, tribute bands etc. The definitions are very broad in the way that Louis Armstrong and Ornette Coleman are both Jazz, Status Quo and Trivium are both Rock and Level 42 and Parliament are both funk. The terms are only broad definitions not scientific classifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469201232' post='3096635'] No it's not. Several of Carole King's biggest hits were first recorded and released by other artists. When she released her own self-penned songs later, are you seriously suggesting that made her a covers act? [/quote] Carole King is not a band, she's a singer/song writer and certainly not a local bar or functions band. Very off topic. Blue Edited July 22, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1469210713' post='3096746'] Jazz [/quote] Serious question: When using the term 'a standard' in a jazz context, is that basically the same thing as 'a cover' in other genres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1469211302' post='3096751'] Serious question: When using the term 'a standard' in a jazz context, is that basically the same thing as 'a cover' in other genres? [/quote] No. There are standards in pop/rock. They're just tunes that everyone is expected to know. Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl, Dakota... They make putting together bands, gigging and jam sessions so much easier if the majority of musicians have a common pool of music to pull from. . Edited July 22, 2016 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Gotta say I got the shock of my life when I returned to the UK after 11 years in the USA. I was lucky enough to work in a band doing their own material (two singer songwriters with great credentials and contacts in Memphis Mafia and Nashville S/S circuit) but also played a bunch of bar and party gigs with some very good players. When I returned to the UK all that great AOR stuff I had down pat was totally unknown in the UK! Hall and who??? Oh yeah, them that did Maneater. Plan B was swiftly adopted (learning a whole bunch of stuff new to me!) It really is a very different scene. In the pubs the standard is generally pretty abysmal & although the standard improves once you move to the Social Club circuit (think VFW) the pay and the level of professionalism with regard to presentation goes up accordingly. Not necessarily the playing ability. For some reason British bands on the local circuits near me seem to find it hard to play as a group and further the song rather than showing their butts all the time. Covers band is not a term I hear bookers or landlords bandying about much but think about the Confederate Railroad`s "we cant us original songs, less`n they bin done before" and you have it about right Edited July 22, 2016 by ivansc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Yes. Lots of pub bands just doing it for themselves. The one thing I found in the US was the bar bands had their volume levels absolutely spot on. It may have been because they have large bars, but you could actually find places to stand where the music was loud enough to dance to and places to sit and eat and talk. Too many pub bands are punishingly loud in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1469210893' post='3096749'] Carole King is not a band, she's a singer/song writer and certainly not a local bar or functions band. Very off topic. Blue [/quote] Sorry Blue but that's complete tosh. There was an attempt to provide a workable definition of 'covers' which was a dreadful oversimplification. The attempted definition existed independently of the size or type of venue. My point stands, and I'll make my own decision as to what is off topic. [size=4] [/size] [size=4]Amused to see you try to rescue dear Carole by describing her as a singer/songwriter and therefore not a band.[/size] [size=4]So when The Beatles (remember them?) recorded Yesterday, were they a band or a singer/songwriter?[/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4]Let me know when you've finished trying to nail jelly to the ceiling. [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Oh noes! You said the B word! 😧 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469217376' post='3096807'] Sorry Blue but that's complete tosh. There was an attempt to provide a workable definition of 'covers' which was a dreadful oversimplification. The attempted definition existed independently of the size or type of venue. My point stands, and I'll make my own decision as to what is off topic. [size=4] [/size] [size=4]Amused to see you try to rescue dear Carole by describing her as a singer/songwriter and therefore not a band.[/size] [size=4]So when The Beatles (remember them?) recorded Yesterday, were they a band or a singer/songwriter?[/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4]Let me know when you've finished trying to nail jelly to the ceiling. [/size] [/quote] I think you're getting a little bit too literal with that definition. 'a song' pretty much was shorthand for 'prediminantly songs'. Surely everyone would agree with that. Just because you write one song doesn't stop you being a covers band if all your other songs are covers, and vice versa; just because you play one cover song doesn't make you a cover band if all your other songs are original. By original we're taking about 'written by' or 'written for', or even 'first recorded by' the specific artist. The grey area between, I suggest is very grey and pretty wide and varied, and only the band in question are best placed to determine what camp they feel they are in. . Edited July 22, 2016 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1469213603' post='3096777'] Yes. Lots of pub bands just doing it for themselves. The one thing I found in the US was the bar bands had their volume levels absolutely spot on. It may have been because they have large bars, but you could actually find places to stand where the music was loud enough to dance to and places to sit and eat and talk. Too many pub bands are punishingly loud in the UK. [/quote] Nice post! I'm slowly learning the local scene for bands in the UK is quite different then how it is here in the US. There's even different cultures of bands within the US. The " biker bar" scene, even the "bar band" is much more prevalent in the Midwest (*Cheap Trick, REO Speed Wagon) then on the east coast. Blue *These bands were a big part of the early 70s "bar band" scene in the Midwest prior to becoming famous. Edited July 22, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469217376' post='3096807'] Sorry Blue but that's complete tosh. There was an attempt to provide a workable definition of 'covers' which was a dreadful oversimplification. The attempted definition existed independently of the size or type of venue. My point stands, and I'll make my own decision as to what is off topic. [size=4] [/size] [size=4]Amused to see you try to rescue dear Carole by describing her as a singer/songwriter and therefore not a band.[/size] [size=4]So when The Beatles (remember them?) recorded Yesterday, were they a band or a singer/songwriter?[/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4]Let me know when you've finished trying to nail jelly to the ceiling. [/size] [/quote] A working definition of covers is another and separate discussion. We're defining the cover band. Off topic ,but here it is. I have the 45 rpm release of "Yesterday". It says it's by The Beatles. Blue Edited July 22, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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