When there is no Electricity - your ideas welcome!

[Huge Hands]

Dear all,

I apologise if this has been done to death before, but here is my situation:

I play bass guitar (and occasionally double bass) in a 40+ piece concert band, with drums, brass and woodwind. During the summer, they get asked to do a lot of fetes and outdoor stuff where there is no power available. We have tried hiring petrol generators in the past, but they can be messy and noisy in the quiet bits! I've tried playing my double bass without amplification, but once the whole band gets excited, I can't be heard.

The band have suggested they may look into buying me a battery powered amp to use on these gigs.

I was wondering on your suggestions for what is out there? I've heard of the PJ Briefcase stuff, but I think that might be a bit of a boutique budget for them. I've seen some of the Roland stuff mentioned, but wondered if the battery models might be under-powered? I guess in normal bass amp terms to get a comfortable volume without overdriving everything, I'd be looking for a minimum of 100W amp?

Thinking alternatively, I really like my Retro 210 cabs, so was wondering if anyone did a battery powered head only? Or is there a decent inverter out there that would run my Carvin 1000W head/Retro 210 safely at 1/3 volume for about 4 hours without looking like some Frankenstein lab bodge job?

I was just wondering of any of your experiences could point me in the direction of something I hadn't seen? All advice and products will be carefully considered!

Edited July 21, 2016 by Huge Hands

[pete.young]

I have a PJ Briefcase and it would just about cope with this volume wise, but you'd need a bigger battery than the one that fits inside, that'll only give you about 1 hour.

I'd be amazed if you needed 4 hours power though, most concert bands only manage 90 minutes in 2 or 3 sets, most brass players don't have the lip for much more than that.

[gjones]

Learn to play tuba?

James Jamerson on Tuba anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oBc5mHNFBg

[yorks5stringer]

These have been successfully used for Electric Bass, don't know about DB frequencies mind?

[url="http://www.astounded.com/qtx-qr12pa-100w-portable-pa-system-w-2-radio-mics-and-mp3-player.html?gclid=CL3b-YrRhc4CFYkp0wodn3kKwg"]http://www.astounded...CFYkp0wodn3kKwg[/url]

This is the 200watt one, the 100 watt is £10 cheaper...!

Edited July 21, 2016 by yorks5stringer

[pete.young]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1469131172' post='3096069']
Learn to play tuba?

[/quote]

That's a Sousaphone. Horrible things.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1469173308' post='3096250']
That's a Sousaphone. Horrible things.
[/quote]

Bonnie Raitt's bass player disagrees at 1m55s into this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nid-yKTF0gQ

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1469131172' post='3096069']
Learn to play tuba?
[/quote]

Funny you should say that, but I think the band would be a lot happier if I did. When I joined, they had a tuba player and wanted a bass guitarist for the more modern stuff, but he left 6 months later and it's only me mainly reading Tuba parts (an octave lower) as they can't find a Tuba player to join. They usually get a Tuba dep in for the "power-less" concerts, but they've struggled this year so had to do concerts with nothing lower than a bass clarinet (they desperately need more Euphonuims and a Bass Trombonist too!)

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1469120873' post='3095973']
I'd be amazed if you needed 4 hours power though, most concert bands only manage 90 minutes in 2 or 3 sets, most brass players don't have the lip for much more than that.
[/quote]

We often do concerts that may be around 90 mins, but with setting up/soundchecking (yes concert bands do this too) and breaks it often stretches out to around 4 hours.

Of course I wouldn't leave it switched on over the breaks, but I was just thinking of worst case scenario.

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1469141180' post='3096144']
These have been successfully used for Electric Bass, don't know about DB frequencies mind?

[url="http://www.astounded.com/qtx-qr12pa-100w-portable-pa-system-w-2-radio-mics-and-mp3-player.html?gclid=CL3b-YrRhc4CFYkp0wodn3kKwg"]http://www.astounded...CFYkp0wodn3kKwg[/url]

This is the 200watt one, the 100 watt is £10 cheaper...!
[/quote]

Thanks for this. We do use a very similar MiPro unit at work (a bit more expensive) which I've often messed around with in my lunch break in our small office if I've got the guitar with me. Even without a DI box and just plugging into the line input it has a fair bit of grunt, so I reckon with a matched DI it might be good, and they are supposedly 8 hours on a full charge with good batteries. Not sure about whether you'd get that long at full tilt though!

It is something I have considered as an option, I was just wondering if anyone knew of anything specifically for bass?

I do mainly use the bass guitar with them because I'm not the greatest DB player (I can't bow) so it always looks wrong to me when you have a DB and no arco. I prefer to use the guitar as I can get a more whoompy Tuba sound and it's easier when trying to sight read fiddly runs, especially for intonation versus the fretless DB/EUB.

[mcnach]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1469173308' post='3096250']
That's a Sousaphone. Horrible things.
[/quote]

what are you talking about?

Sousaphones and Tubas are brilliant! Yes, they can sound a bit like the soundtrack of a very fat man walking down the street to buy the newspaper... but they can do a lot more than that.

[mcnach]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1469141180' post='3096144']
These have been successfully used for Electric Bass, don't know about DB frequencies mind?

[url="http://www.astounded.com/qtx-qr12pa-100w-portable-pa-system-w-2-radio-mics-and-mp3-player.html?gclid=CL3b-YrRhc4CFYkp0wodn3kKwg"]http://www.astounded...CFYkp0wodn3kKwg[/url]

This is the 200watt one, the 100 watt is £10 cheaper...!
[/quote]


I have the 100W version. I have been using it for 3 years or so now. It's not the most beautiful tonally bass amp, but it's pretty damn good for the price and what it does. I have the 10" 100W version which is very portable and light, the battery lasts a long time, and it can get pretty loud. If extreme portability is not an issue I'd check the slightly bigger versions. But I'm very happy with mine.

It does have a bit of a hiss, which gets worse as the battery runs out, but it's only audible really at home (I often use it at home as I can just move it wherever I feel like in the house, so easily). I'd probably use an EQ pedal if you want to be able to adjust the sound as the built in 2-band EQ is pretty limited. I use active basses mostly, and the onboard EQ is perfect. I did use a small Zoom battery operated FX box in the past with a Precision. You can do without, but I like to have the ability to adjust the sound better.

The mics are not very good at all, no surprises... I binned all the extras. But it does well as a busking bass amp.

[kristo]

I busk with my band using a Pignose Hog 30. Worth a try maybe.... Makes a good seat too.

[URL=http://s277.photobucket.com/user/krisbales/media/6e712851-b134-47e5-bb08-5e0f60102572_zpstqwowiaa.jpg.html][IMG]http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/krisbales/6e712851-b134-47e5-bb08-5e0f60102572_zpstqwowiaa.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Edited July 22, 2016 by kristo

[EBS_freak]

I was looking at leisure batteries for you - but you are going to be lucky to get even an hour and a half out of even the top ones for your amp. If you an amp that pulled less power you may be able to get circa 3.5 hours.

for example, Reidmar 250 with 400W Max demand with a 12v 250ah battery - 3.12 hours worse case (because I would assume that it doesn't pull 400W constantly).

Here's a battery - you could get two I guess... as you will lose a bit on inverter conversion (which you'd also have to price up). http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/250ah-banner-energy-bull-leisure-battery/

Not cheap.

Edited July 22, 2016 by EBS_freak

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='kristo' timestamp='1469196152' post='3096535']
I busk with my band using a Pignose Hog 30. Worth a try maybe.... Makes a good seat too.

[url="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/krisbales/media/6e712851-b134-47e5-bb08-5e0f60102572_zpstqwowiaa.jpg.html"][/url]
[/quote]

With a 40-piece orchestra!

Good luck with that mate.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1469120873' post='3095973']
I have a PJB Briefcase and it would just about cope with this volume wise, but you'd need a bigger battery than the one that fits inside, that'll only give you about 1 hour.

[/quote]

Assuming that you can park a car / van / tourbus somewhere near where you'll be setting up, then use a PJB but get rid of the on-board battery and plug it into the cigarette lighter socket to power it. All PJB Briefcases & Suitcases come with an appropriate power lead for use in that way.

BUT I doubt a Briefcase on its own will hold up against orchestral drums and a brass section. You'll need either a Suitcase or the speaker expansion unit for the Briefcase, I'm thinking.

All of which said, what sort of gig involves playing somewhere where there is literally no power supply at all? I've played plenty of "fetes / outdoor stuff" and power is always needed, and power is always available.

If you're playing in a public park, then (for a small fee) the local council will send someone along to allow you to tap in to the power supply in the street lighting, for example.

[EBS_freak]

This may be your best option!

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469201879' post='3096643']
Assuming that you can park a car / van / tourbus somewhere near where you'll be setting up, then use a PJB but get rid of the on-board battery and plug it into the cigarette lighter socket to power it. All PJB Briefcases & Suitcases come with an appropriate power lead for use in that way.

BUT I doubt a Briefcase on its own will hold up against orchestral drums and a brass section. You'll need either a Suitcase or the speaker expansion unit for the Briefcase, I'm thinking.

All of which said, what sort of gig involves playing somewhere where there is literally no power supply at all? I've played plenty of "fetes / outdoor stuff" and power is always needed, and power is always available.

If you're playing in a public park, then (for a small fee) the local council will send someone along to allow you to tap in to the power supply in the street lighting, for example.
[/quote]

Thanks Jack.

I guess in your experience, they are probably expecting bands where everyone needs power, even the burger vans etc. In my case, it's little village bric a brac stalls and us, so I'm usually the only one, Therefore, people tend to think it is not worth the hassle.

The band does one or two annual fetes every year where they are literally in the middle of a field, or nice flowery gardens/forests. If we were well off enough to run a tour bus, it wouldn't have got that far, nor would they want my motor parked up behind us running away. I also don't think my wheezy old motor could cope with running much more than its interior lights anyway!

I also remember getting to one a few years ago where the local handyman had run out around 50m worth of extensions from an old stately home to where they wanted us to play in the gardens - all lying in puddles etc. I didn't play that one, but it was mainly because it chucked it down as we were setting up and the lovely flute ladies got soaked....

Maybe I've spotted a gap in the market, or it's just a stupid situation that is unique to me. I think I might take a look down the PA speaker road - I'm looking at the MiPros now and wishing I had my bass with me to see how loud it will crank!

[pete.young]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1469192114' post='3096490']

Sousaphones and Tubas are brilliant! Yes, they can sound a bit like the soundtrack of a very fat man walking down the street to buy the newspaper... but they can do a lot more than that.
[/quote]

I love Tubas. Tubas are brilliant. I played Eb bass with concert bands and brass bands for 12 years or so, until I became too busy with work and couldn't make rehearsals or find time to practice. Only very serious players can afford to own an instrument, in most cases the instruments are owned by the band.

I dearly loved the besson sovereign that i was allowed to play and still miss it. In the right hands (not mine I hasten to add, but someone with ability and technique) they are amongst the most musical and lyrical of all instruments.

Like many Tuba players, I'm a lot less enthusiastic about Sousaphones. In comparison they have poor or no compensation, the tone isn't great and it takes an exceptionally talented player to get a decent sound out of them. if you ask me the only thing they are suitable for is trad jazz, and for marching bands in areas where the risk of stepping in dogshit is high ☺

Huge Hands, if your band is offering you the chance to learn Tuba, I'd say go for it. I did, and didn't regret it for one second.

[kristo]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469201523' post='3096641']


With a 40-piece orchestra!

Good luck with that mate.
[/quote]

Ha ha, I missed the 40+ bit somehow. 😳

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1469206878' post='3096697']
Huge Hands, if your band is offering you the chance to learn Tuba, I'd say go for it. I did, and didn't regret it for one second.
[/quote]

Hi Pete - I have toyed with the idea. I have spent a few days here and there looking for an old sousaphone, but you are right, even the knackered ones are mightily expensive. I like the idea of being able to jump onto Tuba or Sousaphone for a New Orleans style jam!

My problem is that if I did, I don't think the band would want me to be anything [i]but [/i]Tuba, and that's not why I joined. I joined when a particular MD wanted a bass guitar as an addition to the Tuba they had, and it was good sight reading training for me. The music is a bit out of my comfort zone in terms of what I would normally like or want to play, but I do it because it keeps the sight reading for bass guitar going. Now they have lost their Tuba player and that MD has gone, I think (to some of the more traditional members of the band) I'm just a necessary evil they have to suffer to keep the band going. I don't care about this of course, I like to wind those type of people up!

The other reason I stay is that the drummer is one of the best I've ever worked with and likes to mix it up a bit (with me) when we can!

[Grangur]

My brother in law is a pro cellist. When wanting to increase the volume he uses a cello soundbox.

I appreciate the size may need to be I creased, but the idea may well work for a DB.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_146943766111510&key=d2f6dc3d61fd72ef48d01980d6bfec29&libId=ir1t8ms001000o08000MA103zw9vlw43j1&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcellofun.yuku.com%2Ftopic%2F6568&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fccrma.stanford.edu%2Fmarl%2FCASL%2Fdocuments%2FCondax-CelloPodium.pdf&title=cello%20box%20%2F%20platform%20advice%3F%20in%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fccrma.stanford.edu...ts%2FCondax-CelloPodium.pdf

[SubsonicSimpleton]

That cello podium is basically a large wooden coned speaker, interesting and thanks for linking - you get a cruder but also very effective amplification boost with double bass on hollow stages as the endpin drives the stage as a giant soundboard (much like resting an electric headstock onto a table or door).

[Grangur]

If you're interested I'll get some pics of my Bro in Law's podium and poset those. I guess a DB would need a bigger one, but the principle would be the same.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Pics would certainly be interesting, looking at the design I would guess that the size is heavily influenced by the need for space for the cellist to sit on a chair, rather than a mathematical relationship between the surface of the cello soundboard and the surface of the podium soundboard, but I'm not not in the mood to do the maths right now so I could well be wrong about that.

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1469437811' post='3098194']
My brother in law is a pro cellist. When wanting to increase the volume he uses a cello soundbox.

I appreciate the size may need to be I creased, but the idea may well work for a DB.

[url="http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_146943766111510&key=d2f6dc3d61fd72ef48d01980d6bfec29&libId=ir1t8ms001000o08000MA103zw9vlw43j1&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcellofun.yuku.com%2Ftopic%2F6568&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fccrma.stanford.edu%2Fmarl%2FCASL%2Fdocuments%2FCondax-CelloPodium.pdf&title=cello%20box%20%2F%20platform%20advice%3F%20in%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fccrma.stanford.edu...ts%2FCondax-CelloPodium.pdf"]http://api.viglink.c...CelloPodium.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

I would be interested to know what sort of volume increase this gives. I would also imagine it needs to be sat on a hard floor surface such as a stage, unlike the uneven muddy grass (that I would normally lay a picnic blanket over) we can usually get playing outdoor fetes!