JV Fenders/Squiers

[Defo]

I would love a fender precision from the 80s, that's when i started playing. What's the story with JVs? I remember reading about how the Japanese Fenders were outplaying the US ones back in the 80s (anyone else read Guitarist Magazine in the mid 80s?) and wonder if the JV might be what I'm after

thanks

Andy

[luckman67]

I to started playing in the 1980's (87 to be precise), I remember Dixon's selling the JV Strat,& Precision with an amp for £199. My best mate bought one (the Strat) and it was a really nice guitar, and the first bass I ever played was the Squier JV '57 Precision.I Saw one for sale on Andy Baxter's site last year for £1250, 6 times more than it was new so I got a brand new Fender American Standard Precision. I just couldn't justify that price for a Squier I still like that bass though, wish I'd bought it back in '87.

Edited July 24, 2016 by luckman67

[hooky_lowdown]

Many people say the early 80s Squires are as good as US ones (build quality and sound-wise), though I've not tried one myself. They normally go for the same price as used MIJ's, which is still a lot less than US ones.

I used to have a '89 Squire P bass made in Korea (the early MIK basses were made from the same parts as the mid 80s Squire basses because when production moved from Japan to Korea, they just shipped all the necks, bodies and pickups across, and they were assembled in Korea instead of Japan. That bass played and sounded really good, far superior to any Fender MIM P bass I've played.

I've read Fenders from the 70s and perhaps the 80s are not that good. I think large prices for these are paid because they look cool, and they do. If I had a choice between a 80s Fender P bass and a Squier JV 80s P Bass, I would choose the Squier, and treat myself with the cash I save.

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='Defo' timestamp='1469359095' post='3097628']
I would love a fender precision from the 80s, that's when i started playing. What's the story with JVs? I remember reading about how the Japanese Fenders were outplaying the US ones back in the 80s (anyone else read Guitarist Magazine in the mid 80s?) and wonder if the JV might be what I'm after

thanks

Andy
[/quote]

I use an 83 JV 57 Precision. Olympic white with a maple neck. Hands down the best Precision I've ever owned and I've had quite a few. I sold my 79/81 USA as it didn't come close to the JV. No mods apart from it's wearing a black plate instead of the original white. I've only ever played a few so can't really tell you if they are 'hit or miss'. The one's I have played have all been good though.

[Chiliwailer]

I was just chatting to Lee650 about JV's this morning.

I've had 4 JV Precisions, 2 were very early Fender logo 1957 versions, one was a 83 60's version and the other a 83 70's version.

The Fender logo ones were outstanding and I'd still have one if it wasn't for the weight being 9.5lbs. The 60's one was good, but not great, the 70's one was fantastic and light weight, one of the very few basses I've had that I'd still like to own.

The body wood can differ on JV, the Fender logo ones were Sen Ash (more of an alder though I believe and just called ash because of the grain), then I think some alder ones came out before moving on to Basswood... If I recall correctly? Only reason I mention all this is because as always, tones can alter depending on body wood. Personally, I prefer the Sen Ash and Alder ones.

They are good basses, though sometimes I find the hype a bit too much and distorted as there are lots of good basses out there. Worth a punt though if you can get one at a decent price.

[Paul S]

I've played lots of Precisions including long term use of a 90s USA Standard one. Of those I have played the best 3 are early 80s Squiers.

I currently have 2 JV Precisions - one is an early Fender logo in tobacco-burst, the other an '83 Squier logo in black. Both '57 RI models. Both are totally fabulous basses but I actually prefer the slightly later one. The Fender logo one weighs just under 9lbs, the black one was just under 8.5lbs but I swapped the tuners for Gotoh lightweight ones that I bought on here (and a Schaller 3D bridge) and it is now around 8lbs. The black one has a quality about the tone that the Fender logo one doesn't quite match and it has become my main gigging bass, especially in view of the weight. Plus it has some lovely subtle figuring in the grain of the maple neck, which itself has aged to a warm caramel. It actually cost me half as much as the Fender logo one, too, which is nice The necks on both are just amazing.

However, and with the disclaimer that all of this IMO of course, every bit as good as those, and the one that just suits me perfectly, is an A serial no. 32" scale Squier Precision that I have had for a while now. The stock pup was swapped by a previous owner (hi Ted) to a Fender Original with a quality pot/wiring loom upgrade and it has the exact sound that 'the Precision bass in my head' has. It is around 7.5lbs in weight, white aged to cream with a white scratchplate and a rosewood board - the neck is 38mm at the nut and a really comfy radius. It is my joint favourite bass and, shallow person that I am, if this were black with a maple neck it would be the one I use all the time. But it is certainly the one I would grab in the 'house fire' scenario.

Not an exhaustive test by any means, but I have no need to look for any more Precisions.

[Minty]

Yesterday I tried out a '73 Jazz, a '79 Antigua Precision and an '83 SQ Precision...the SQ blew the others away in terms of playability and resonance. My '83 JV Jazz is better still. I think the quality and the in-hand feel of Japanese instruments surpass the majority of the USA's efforts around that time, and ever since tbh. They're starting to gather genuine vibe and mojo too now after being around for 30+ years...

Edited July 24, 2016 by Minty

[Bassassin]

If you're interested in JVs & 80s MIJ Squiers in general, do check out [url="http://www.21frets.com/"]http://www.21frets.com/[/url] - more info about these instruments than you can shake a stick at.

Unless it really. really has to have "that" serial number, don't get hung up on JVs, though. The later MIJ SQ, E and A - serial instruments are excellent quality and will cost you a few arms & legs less than a JV.

I don't think it's the case that the late 80s MIKs were actually Japanese. These were initially built by Young-Chang and many are fundamentally identical to Young-Chang's own Fenix brand, which they built simultaneously. And why Fender took their business elsewhere... They're excellent quality and worth a look - as are Fenixes.

It's also worth considering other 80s MIJ Precisions, unless it has to have Squier on the end. Anecdotally the very first JVs actually began manufacture as Grecos. Fender did a deal with Greco's brand owner to form Fender Japan, and one of the conditions was that manufacture of Greco Fender copies should cease. So basically an 80s Greco P is very closely related to a JV - the same factory (Fujigen) if nothing else.

There are also various 80s MIJ replica-standard brands to consider - Fernandes & Tokai are the best-known brand & likely represent excellent value compared to JVs.

Jon.

[luckman67]

[quote name='hooky_lowdown' timestamp='1469360220' post='3097641']
Many people say the early 80s Squires are as good as US ones (build quality and sound-wise), though I've not tried one myself. They normally go for the same price as used MIJ's, which is still a lot less than US ones.

I used to have a '89 Squire P bass made in Korea (the early MIK basses were made from the same parts as the mid 80s Squire basses because when production moved from Japan to Korea, they just shipped all the necks, bodies and pickups across, and they were assembled in Korea instead of Japan. That bass played and sounded really good, far superior to any Fender MIM P bass I've played.

I've read Fenders from the 70s and perhaps the 80s are not that good. I think large prices for these are paid because they look cool, and they do. If I had a choice between a 80s Fender P bass and a Squier JV 80s P Bass, I would choose the Squier, and treat myself with the cash I save.
[/quote]
I have an '89 MIK Squier Precision & I doubt they were leftover Japanese parts. The JV's were full body thickness were as the MIK's were thinner, and the body wood on mine is plywood and not the solid wood used on the JV. Plus my guess is that Samick who made mine used there own bodies & hardware, with the only exception being they could use a Fender headstock on the Squier's .But I may be wrong this is just my take on it with my own S9 MIK Squier.

[lee650]

Don't discount the Tokais either! They IIRC they were made by matsumoko and created the infamous "lawsuit" fenders. I recently picked up an 83 tokai fretless jazz in an unusual Teal colour and the quality is on par with my 82 JV jazz. These are going for a lot less as they currently don't have the trend factor,but the prices are rising.
At over 1k I wouldn't consider a JV now as I feel there are plenty of decent basses in thay price point which would be better value (although not collectable im sure).
I was lucky I paid £120 for my JV back in 93 and i recall one or two jvs floating around the north east for not much money. I foolishly didn't buy a jv precision in leeds for £150 many moons ago. Oh to have hindsight eh! I passed on an old Wal for £800 too!!! Kicking myself I bought a warwick instead 😂

[Bassassin]

[quote name='lee650' timestamp='1469383343' post='3097880']
Don't discount the Tokais either! They IIRC they were made by matsumoko and created the infamous "lawsuit" fenders.
[/quote]

Hope you don't mind me being a bit of a pedant here but Tokais were made by, erm, Tokai. Tokai Gakki is a manufacturer in its own right and MIJ Tokais were, and are made in their Hamamatsu factory. Apart from in the early 70s when they briefly sub-contracted to Kasuga Gakki in order to meet increased demand.

There weren't any lawsuit Fender copies - in fact to be properly pedantic (a failing of mine - or is it a virtue?) there were no MIJ lawsuit guitars at all. Ever.

Anyway, you're right, 70s & 80s MIJ Tokais are excellent, replica-quality instruments.

J.

[lee650]

Pedant away J
It's all good!!!!

Here's a little thing that confirms your right!

http://www.music-trade.co.jp/tokaihistory.html

It does mention lawsuit era guitars meaning all of the Japanese copies at the time. Whether or not fender sued these companies is Moot as fender employed them all at different stages to make Japanese fenders.

thanks for the info J

Edited July 25, 2016 by lee650

[Marc S]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1469366343' post='3097714']
...Unless it really. really has to have "that" serial number, don't get hung up on JVs, though. The later MIJ SQ, E and A - serial instruments are excellent quality and will cost you a few arms & legs less than a JV.....

.....There are also various 80s MIJ replica-standard brands to consider - Fernandes & Tokai are the best-known brand & likely represent excellent value compared to JVs.

Jon.
[/quote]

I'd agree with this sentiment. Don't get "hung up" on your next bass having to be a JV Squier
Yes, JV's are superb, very collectible, very playable and in some eyes as good as or better than many US Fenders
But there are other superb P basses out there too (if it has to be a P bass, that is)

I recently played a Squier "Silver series" Precision, and it was lovely, and very reasonably priced
As Jon says, so are earlier Japan made Tokai Hardpuncher / P basses

I currently have 3 precisions; a US Fretless, which is lovely
But my 2 fretted P's are IMO the best I've ever played - One being a Squier Classic Vibe P bass (made in China - not the same factory as the Affinity series), and the other being a Roadworn Series Precision...

The Roadworn series are built in Mexico, and are absolutely brilliant (different line to other MIM built instruments). These can go for very reasonable prices second-hand, and I would try one out before you rush out to buy any US P bass
But the best value for money I think, is the Squier Classic Vibe. The ethos and thinking behind this series was to try to replicate the build quality of the JV series, but in a factory in China.

I had a Fiesta Red Classic Vibe, but then sold it, as I had too many basses - instant regret though! So much so, that a few months later, I went out & bought another identical instrument. Since then, I got a luthier to convert it to a P/J and it's even better

Definitely check out as many as you can, before splashing the cash on a JV. Try a roadworn series - they look, feel and sound like they've been round the block, and I don't know how they get the necks to feel well played and "worn-in". And if a second-hand CV P bass comes up for sale on here - try it out, or better still - grab it while you can. As they've stopped making the CV in Fiesta Red - I'm glad I bought one back....
I'm sure in years to come, they will be regarded as highly as the JV's are now

Good luck with your search

EDIT: Though I've not tried one, the Squier Matt Freeman P basses are built in the same factory as the Classic Vibes, and are said to be brilliant! These are still available in shops btw

Edited July 25, 2016 by Marc S

[Bassassin]

[quote name='lee650' timestamp='1469432319' post='3098118']
Pedant away J
It's all good!!!!

Here's a little thing that confirms your right!

[url="http://www.music-trade.co.jp/tokaihistory.html"]http://www.music-tra...kaihistory.html[/url]

It does mention lawsuit era guitars meaning all of the Japanese copies at the time. Whether or not fender sued these companies is Moot as fender employed them all at different stages to make Japanese fenders.

thanks for the info J
[/quote]

With Fender Japan instruments the rule of thumb is the "Made In Japan" refers to instruments built by Fujigen (basically from JVs right up to the mid 90s) and subsequent "Crafted In Japan" were products of Dyna Gakki & Tokai Gakki.

The "lawsuit era" refers to the period from about 1971, when Japanese manufacturers began flooding the market with Fender, Gibson (and the occasional Rick) copies, up until June 1977, when Gibson brand owner Norlin made a proposal of intended legal action against Elger Hoshino, the US branch of Ibanez brand owner Hoshino Gakki, over the use of their copyrighted "open book" headstock profile on Ibanez Gibson copies. No legal action ever took place because Hoshino had already changed their heastock profile to a non-infringing shape the previous year.

Fender never threatened legal action against anyone in the 70s and basically dealt with the MIJ copy threat by setting up Fender Japan, in co-operation with Greco brand owner Kanda Shokai.

[lee650]

Very informative! Thanks again J

back to the OP! Yes get a Japanese fender copy,they are great. Sadowsky metros are Japanese made and are silly money.

[Rumple]

I've owned a JV Strat since the early eighties, it's an excellent instrument but in this day and age I'm sure you could get something to equal it in quality for less money.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='lee650' timestamp='1469444786' post='3098287']
Very informative! Thanks again J
[/quote]

I need to get out more...

[lee650]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1469450173' post='3098349']


I need to get out more...
[/quote]

lol 😉

[lee650]

[quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1469445275' post='3098290']
I've owned a JV Strat since the early eighties, it's an excellent instrument but in this day and age I'm sure you could get something to equal it in quality for less money.
[/quote]

I completely agree! The classic vibe squires are fantastic for the money and those limelight copies get a lot of love. Even modern day japanese basses are fantastic (bacchus etc). I feel there are some far more interesting fender inspired basses coming out of Japan these days.

[dave_bass5]

I had a JV P, got it when it first came out. IMO they were fantastic basses for their time, and of course they still are, but ive played basses that are much nicer, and cost a lot less than the over inflated second hand prices people expect from JV's.
The low end market has matured a lot since the JV's, and while that doesnt mean they arent good, i always laugh when i see one for sale for £600+.

These are basses that cost £199 new,and while it was a long time ago are they really worth the current asking price?

Edited July 25, 2016 by dave_bass5

[Marc S]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1469455184' post='3098408']
.....The low end market has matured a lot since the JV's, and while that doesnt mean they arent good, i always laugh when i see one for sale for £600+.

These are basses that cost £199 new,and while it was a long time ago are they really worth the current asking price?
[/quote]

As a matter of interest (well, to some anyway) when JV's first came out, and were around £200 new, I bought a US Fender P, which was a 1970's model, and just a little over £200. Although a JV might be around £600 now, I guess that 70's Fender could fetch £1500 - £1800, Which is an even bigger escalation in price.

BTW The US P was heavy as hell, and had a really chunky neck. I bought it because I was obsessed with the logo on the headstock. I played a JV shortly afterwards, and recall thinking it was much nicer than my US P. Again, many people at the time (including guitar shop staff) used the awful term "Jap Cr@p" to define these now sought after instruments...

I suppose in terms of relative quality, they probably aren't worth the 2nd hand price now, as you can get some fabulous quality instruments for less cash. However, my bet is that that JV I played is still a better bass to play than that US P I owned.
Of course, as those older JV's become older and rarer, they become more collectible, and the perception is that they are indeed worth the asking price of £600

Edited July 25, 2016 by Marc S

[ead]

Got to say my Squier Silver Series Jazz is a seriously nice bass. On the hunt for a matching P bass now.

[bassbiscuits]

Ive played a couple of JV Fenders but ended up getting a USA one.
Why?
Well I really liked the idea of a cool, bit more vintage MIJ bass. I've got a MIJ strat of no particular pedigree from the mid 1990s and it's lovely.
The JVs I played were all pretty nice - but with the asking price being the same as for a secondhand USA Fender, they just weren't quite as good. The newer USA Fender just felt like a better quality all round bass.
Saying that I've played my mate's JV precision with Lindy Fralin pickups and it's a peach.
Just not sure they're worth the £700-£800 price tag they often command these days.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1469459662' post='3098472']


As a matter of interest (well, to some anyway) when JV's first came out, and were around £200 new, I bought a US Fender P, which was a 1970's model, and just a little over £200. Although a JV might be around £600 now, I guess that 70's Fender could fetch £1500 - £1800, Which is an even bigger escalation in price.
[/quote]

Back in 1973/4, a brand new natural/maple. Precision was on sale for £252 in my local music shop. Remember in the mid to late 70s (after the oil crisis) inflation was running in double figures - perhaps as much as 15% per annum.

There are several different issues here -
1) comparatively few people wanted new Fender basses in the early 80s as the fashion was for keyboard bass or fat bass guitar sounds such as Wal, Musicman, Ibanez Musician - the latter were in the $800 plus price range new at the beginning of the 80s.
2) thus the price of both new and secondhand Fenders at this time reflected this.
3) critics panned these ranges back at that time.
4) Squiers really were starter basses - thus with an amp there may have been more of a market for these (at £200). As stated they competed with the likes of Antoria etc.
5) No matter how comparatively good these Japanese built Fenders and Squiers are, it's a matter of some surprise that 80s models fetch such high prices now, and particularly for the starter model Squiers, say compared to instruments which were desirable at the time - such as an Ibanez Musician which is altogether a superior instrument with far greater flexibility. A good Musician would probably cost around £600, on a par with a Squier - I suspect market price is less to do quality and more to do with other factors entirely, such as brand hype and vintage factors being talked up.

At the end of the day people will pay what they consider a market price for these instruments - however I can't help thinking these are over-priced/ valued.

Edited August 25, 2016 by drTStingray

[Ashborygirl]

At one point I had 6 JV Precisions, this was back around 2004 when they were a £300 bass. At that sort of price it was a no-brainer, quality on a par with the US made instruments but way cheaper. These days they seem to be going for more than the American Standards, hell I've seen some people asking more than US reissues are going for.

For me the hype now exceeds the intrinsic value & there's too much fairy dust/bullshit being sprinkled around. I've even seen people hyping later Jap Fenders as "made just after the JVs" - like that makes a difference. There are some killer JVs about but there are plenty that are instantly forgettable too - just like every Fender range. If I was after an 80s Jap P bass these days I would be getting a Tokai, every bit as good as the JVs but the prices have remained far more realistic.