Music Tapes in 2016!

[mcnach]

Interesting video but... this guy wasn't around when we used tapes everyday, which explains his enthusiasm

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wwaj4HvhyU[/media]

[mcnach]

He is right about the chrome & metal tapes: they sounded so much better than the standard ones (assuming the source was good quality)...

But, portability? Yeah, smaller than a CD, but you can put a lot more music in a CD these days. And let's not start with digital media players that can hold gigabytes of data...
Durability? Unless you only use them in your high quality deck, you will get them chewed sooner or later, and your high quality deck won't be the 'portable' one, rendering the portability argument invalid.

Who wants to listen to tapes these days, really? long rewind/forward, can't skip/find tracks, takes long to record...

When our singer said tapes were 'cool' and he was going to look into issuing a tape version of our last album I thought he was joking!

But one thing I see in common among all these tape enthusiasts: they weren't around when tapes were what we used everyday as it was the only really portable medium, and the only way to make your own compilations...

I don't miss tapes at all.

I still have a very nice Sony deck from 1995-1996. Maybe I should clean the heads and ensure the belts are in good condition and sell it to some crazy person who prefers tapes. I also have a VCR in great condition

[paul h]

That hit me right in the nostalgias.

Very interesting stuff

[stingrayPete1977]

My wife's mini Mayfair has the original tape deck, I've cleaned the heads but I've only got a Pulp album and a green day one, I went on eBay to buy some red hot chili peppers ones for her,Jeez they fetch a lot!

[gary mac]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1469524206' post='3098933']
He is right about the chrome & metal tapes: they sounded so much better than the standard ones (assuming the source was good quality)...

But, portability? Yeah, smaller than a CD, but you can put a lot more music in a CD these days. And let's not start with digital media players that can hold gigabytes of data...
Durability? Unless you only use them in your high quality deck, you will get them chewed sooner or later, and your high quality deck won't be the 'portable' one, rendering the portability argument invalid.

Who wants to listen to tapes these days, really? long rewind/forward, can't skip/find tracks, takes long to record...

When our singer said tapes were 'cool' and he was going to look into issuing a tape version of our last album I thought he was joking!

But one thing I see in common among all these tape enthusiasts: they weren't around when tapes were what we used everyday as it was the only really portable medium, and the only way to make your own compilations...

I don't miss tapes at all.

I still have a very nice Sony deck from 1995-1996. Maybe I should clean the heads and ensure the belts are in good condition and sell it to some crazy person who prefers tapes. I also have a VCR in great condition
[/quote]


I've recently sold a couple of old tape decks on Ebay, both buyers were very enthusiastic and happy to pay

[4stringslow]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1469524206' post='3098933']
He is right about the chrome & metal tapes: they sounded so much better than the standard ones (assuming the source was good quality)...

But, portability? Yeah, smaller than a CD, but you can put a lot more music in a CD these days. And let's not start with digital media players that can hold gigabytes of data...
Durability? Unless you only use them in your high quality deck, you will get them chewed sooner or later, and your high quality deck won't be the 'portable' one, rendering the portability argument invalid.

Who wants to listen to tapes these days, really? long rewind/forward, can't skip/find tracks, takes long to record...

When our singer said tapes were 'cool' and he was going to look into issuing a tape version of our last album I thought he was joking!

But one thing I see in common among all these tape enthusiasts: they weren't around when tapes were what we used everyday as it was the only really portable medium, and the only way to make your own compilations...

I don't miss tapes at all.

I still have a very nice Sony deck from 1995-1996. Maybe I should clean the heads and ensure the belts are in good condition and sell it to some crazy person who prefers tapes. I also have a VCR in great condition
[/quote]

+1

Kids always like something new and novel. If cassette tapes were so good they wouldn't have been superseded would they, for all the good reasons mentioned above.

Besides, if people really want to 'go retro' cassette tapes running at a ludicrously low 1 7/8th inches per second were no match for my old reel-to-reel tape deck running at 7 1/2 ips, which was a big part of my teenage years - plus it had a Sound-on-sound feature that enabled multi-part recordings to be built up. Happy days, but no match for a DAW!

Having said that, I've got a cassette player in my old Land Rover Defender - anyone interested?

Edited July 26, 2016 by 4stringslow

[cheddatom]

it is a bit weird, but then, imagine if this thread was about vinyl. I doubt post #2 would have gone down so well

I have a tape player in my car and used to pick up tapes for 50p from charity shops. I have quite a few, but the more I play them, the more knackered they get

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1469524206' post='3098933']
He is right about the chrome & metal tapes: they sounded so much better than the standard ones (assuming the source was good quality)...

But, portability? Yeah, smaller than a CD, but you can put a lot more music in a CD these days. And let's not start with digital media players that can hold gigabytes of data...
[/quote]

Yeah, it was quite interesting, and I certainly didn't know about the four distinct species of cassette, but if I were being cynical the video could be summarised as "cassette tapes can sound amazing if you're prepared to sink large amounts of money into it."

[Skol303]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1469524206' post='3098933']
I don't miss tapes at all.
[/quote]

Me neither.

I had a bin-liner full of them, which I gave/threw away as they were just taking up space. Vinyl is a different kettle of fish, of course. I [i]love[/i] vinyl.

Off topic: I was once in a band called AGFA, which 'borrowed' its branding from the once popular make of audio cassette. Only we perverted the acronym to: "A Good F*** Aches". Ah, those were the days

Back on topic: magnetic tape - as in reel to reel - is still very much in use by professional studios, mostly I assume for its famed saturation/warmth and compression-like qualities. So in some arenas, tape is far from dead as a medium for music.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Skol303

[Highfox]

I have a tape deck in our outside sauna building and I often listen to my old tapes in there.
Back in the day I had a long commute everyday on the tube and massed a huge amount of material on tape. When I moved to finland it was easier to fill the suitcase with tapes than my vinyls, so they all made it over here. The Vinyls are here now as well,15 years later .

[discreet]

I've seen audio cassettes come and go. And 8-track cartridges (remember them?) and Betamax and VHS and Laser Discs and MiniDiscs, and DAT tape, and CDs and DVDs.... the only medium I wasn't around to see the introduction of was vinyl. I'm not THAT old.

Edited July 26, 2016 by discreet

[4stringslow]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1469526910' post='3098961']
it is a bit weird, but then, imagine if this thread was about vinyl. I doubt post #2 would have gone down so well

I have a tape player in my car and used to pick up tapes for 50p from charity shops. I have quite a few, but the more I play them, the more knackered they get
[/quote]

It would have gone down just as well with me - I don't miss vinyl either.

Cassettes were fine in cars mainly because vinyl wasn't, plus cars are such a terrible listening environment that sound quality doesn't really matter that much.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned 8-track tape cartridges.

edit: Damn - Discreet beat me to it! And yes, nice list of 'been n gone' technologies - and gone for a reason.

Edited July 26, 2016 by 4stringslow

[BigRedX]

Yet another bollocks video full of lies and misinformation.

As someone who started off their musical career by releasing music on DIY cassette and then put out as mini album on cassette a couple of years ago here are some facts that the video glosses over.

1. Although noise reduction improved massively by the 90s in the form of Dolby S, the physical build quality of cassette decks had significantly fallen from the high-end machines of the mid 80s. I had top of the range models from both Sony and Aiwa from the 90s and both have been binned due to failed transport mechanisms that ate cassettes as they died. However my Aiwa desk that I bought in 1984 is still going strong mainly because the whole transport and cassette loading mechanism is so robustly engineered with most of it being metal rather than the flimsy plastic of the 90s models. That makes it a weighty beast, and certainly not as easy to hold up as the example in the video.

2. What these analogue purists don't tell you is the reason that they like the sound so much is (just like vinyl) tape distorts in a way that the human ear finds musically pleasing. However it is changing the audio. Just because the distortion is one that most people like the sound doesn't stop it being distortion and and change in the sound that the producers of the music didn't really intend. It's not "HiFi".

3. While there are plenty of bands putting their music out on cassette, don't expect any of them to have a 100% analogue path from instruments to final final cassette. When we made our cassette mini album this was the initial intent as we did the recording live to 24-track analogue tape and mixed it down through an analogue desk with all analogue outboard processing to 15ips stereo tape, every other stage of the production process was digital. We could have gone analogue for the mastering, but it would have significantly increased the cost (about double), but when it came to the cassette duplication, none of the manufacturers in the UK we contacted could accept tape and all wanted either a CD or digital files.

4. While there is an undeniable retro charm for those discovering cassettes for the first time, for those of us who used the technology the first time around, MP3 does everything the cassette used to do but quicker and better. When my first band released their music on DIY cassette (send us a blank cassette and an SAE and we'll send it back with our music recorded on it), it was only because we couldn't afford make a vinyl single. While there were some bands in the late 70s/early 80s who were strictly cassette only, all the "big" names in the DIY cassette scene were putting out vinyl just as soon as they could. These days all the idealism of the scene can be achieved with a Soundcloud account and a Facebook page. And when my band were lucky enough to have a retrospective completion album released it came out on CD!

Me, I'm getting all my 70s and 80s demo cassettes transferred onto my computer as CD quality digital files as fast as possible before the tapes degrade so much that they will no longer play.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1469533916' post='3099035']
2. What these analogue purists don't tell you is the reason that they like the sound so much is (just like vinyl) tape distorts in a way that the human ear finds musically pleasing. However it is changing the audio. Just because the distortion is one that most people like the sound doesn't stop it being distortion and and change in the sound that the producers of the music didn't really intend. It's not "HiFi".
[/quote]

Very true and this is the point on which I often end up offending "HiFi Purists" who can't accept the truth

[leftybassman392]

I had to switch the tape off after around 40 seconds. It was either that or drop-kicking the laptop through the window. Something about the guy's presentation style touched a nerve....

As to cassettes, well if a new generation is willing to pay silly money for them then I might just have to dig out my old [s]crap[/s] tapes and stick them on eBay. I don't know if anybody's mentioned it yet, but as I recall most tapes on most machines were short on top end due to the tiny 1/32" track widths (although this isn't so much of an issue for me these days ) - and they degraded over time too. I tried pretty much every tape formulation known to man in a very expensive (and big - oh, and heavy ) Yamaha jobbie. Never liked them as much as vinyl. For me the main benefit was that they were very portable with an acceptable-if-you're-not-too-fussy sound quality. Perfect for moving songs to & fro with students.

TL;DR Been there, done that; if people are [s]dumb enough[/s] prepared to shell out for tape cassettes then good luck to 'em.

Edited July 26, 2016 by leftybassman392

[Sammers]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1469533916' post='3099035']
3. While there are plenty of bands putting their music out on cassette, don't expect any of them to have a 100% analogue path from instruments to final final cassette.
[/quote]

I've often thought that with vinyl. People ramble on about analogue sounding better etc etc but it's probably gone through a computer at some point anyway so it seems a bit of a con to call it analogue.... I also don't like getting up half way through an album to turn it over!

The cassette thing comes across as a hipster trend, just doing it to be different... which is fine if that's what flicks your switch. I guess.

[discreet]

Back in the day the main purpose of audio cassettes for me was to record personalised mix tapes for girls in the hope of boffing them. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Girls weren't so high-maintenance back then.

Today I look upon Audio cassettes as dead-format shag-bait.

It actually seems quite cute and romantic now, compared with today's methods - i.e. texting her a picture of your cock.

Edited July 26, 2016 by discreet

[paul h]

Handing out our demos on cassette at gigs was an awesome way to interact with the audience and absolutely kicks the arse of emailing someone an mp3 link!

I don't see what's wrong with a little bit of retro fun. It doesn't make any less sense than the indie label 7" vinyl thing. In fact it makes more sense...it's something that a band can produce from beginning to end in the "bedroom". Some nice sleeve design and a cool label for the tape and it could look really good.

Of course I do forget we are on ContraryChat so everyone and everything else is bollocks and full of lies.

[PaulWarning]

I've always doubted the line that cassettes sounded rubbish, back in the 80's I used to record vinyl on to cassette using a decent turntable, cassette deck and tapes and really couldn't tell the difference, I recorded loads of stuff off the radio and am currently transferring it onto my computer because it is so convenient to find individual tracks and barring something we don't know about they won't deteriorate with age, bloody time consuming though, again I can't tell the difference, sonically, between cassettes and 192mbps MP3's, but my hearing is shagged now so there could be,

[Skol303]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1469537166' post='3099097']
I can't tell the difference, sonically, between cassettes and 192mbps MP3's[/quote]

Really? You must’ve been using those fancy Chrome cassettes

I once converted some old tapes to digital and they sounded poop in comparison to MP3s. But it could have been that the cassettes were old and knackered.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1469536336' post='3099074']Today I look upon Audio cassettes as dead-format shag-bait.[/quote]

I’m having that and recycling it at every opportunity from now on

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1469538107' post='3099119']
Really? You must’ve been using those fancy Chrome cassettes

I once converted some old tapes to digital and they sounded poop in comparison to MP3s. But it could have been that the cassettes were old and knackered.




[/quote]I can't tell the difference between what cassettes sound like through my HiFi and what the MP3's sound like after I've converted them is what I meant, but I always used decent cassettes, recorder and tuner when taking stuff off the radio, so it sounds ok

[cheddatom]

well if you've got a good audio interface there should be no difference between the sound of the tape and the sound of the tape recorded digitally. I'd have thought you'd hear some artefacts at 192kpbs though. I always go for 356 kbps

[mcnach]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1469526417' post='3098955']
I've recently sold a couple of old tape decks on Ebay, both buyers were very enthusiastic and happy to pay
[/quote]


I must take this opportunity then!
This weekend, I will take the deck from its box and test it

You know, I assumed I'd pretty much have to just throw it away of give it to someone who still has a few tapes around... and it's such a nice deck I didn't want to give it to just anybody. Cool that it can sell. I can use some new strings

[mcnach]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1469527382' post='3098966']
Yeah, it was quite interesting, and I certainly didn't know about the four distinct species of cassette, but if I were being cynical the video could be summarised as "cassette tapes can sound amazing if you're prepared to sink large amounts of money into it."
[/quote]

I knew about the different quality tapes as a teenager. They were pricey compared to the standard ones, so I saved them for albums that sounded particularly nice on vinyl. I always made copies of my vinyl records, and play the tape normally. When the tape gets knackered, make another copy, thus saving the vinyl from dust and wear.

It wasn't THAT expensive to have good sounding tapes. Just about any decent tape deck would do a good job. When CD players came out they were a LOT more expensive than standard tape decks.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1469527490' post='3098967']
Me neither.

I had a bin-liner full of them, which I gave/threw away as they were just taking up space. Vinyl is a different kettle of fish, of course. I [i]love[/i] vinyl.

Off topic: I was once in a band called AGFA, which 'borrowed' its branding from the once popular make of audio cassette. Only we perverted the acronym to: "A Good F*** Aches". Ah, those were the days

Back on topic: magnetic tape - as in reel to reel - is still very much in use by professional studios, mostly I assume for its famed saturation/warmth and compression-like qualities. So in some arenas, tape is far from dead as a medium for music.
[/quote]


Yes. I still have my vinyl at my parents' (I don't have a record player). Many had a warmth in the mix that I hope to enjoy again sometime. Although I will probably give up after one listen. But the whole object: large artwork, notes, photographs... I loved all that. And the little noises the vinyl develops... you start associating them with the music, so that when you hear the CD version, at times I still expect that little crackle between song X and song Y

I know several small studios in Edinburgh that record on tape and the tape is simultaneously played back into a DAW, to take advantage of the "pleasant limitations" of the tape. That's on thing. But the consumer cassettes... urgh. Especially the "original" ones you could buy prerecorded in shops. Their build quality was terrible. They were much more likely to fail than any decent blank tape.