FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) Ive recently gone the route of in ear monitoring. Tried it at last nights practice and i loved it. Cannot believe i have only now started using them! So i don't really need to have a speaker on stage anymore. This got me thinking did i even need an amp? ? So do i? Could i get away with buying a quality preamp, and going straight into one of Behringer X-18 inputs to be powered by the PAs power amp? We have monitors for the rest of the band to hear a little bass if they want, and the two subs bleed a fair bit of bass too. I've never considered this before so don't know how feasible it is really. Any thoughts? Any suggestions? Edit to add the question - If i DI the back of my existing Class D amp, without a load (no cab), will it work? I think i remember reading somewhere that Valve amps need a load to run, so not sure if that is the same case for Class D's? Edited July 27, 2016 by FuNkShUi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Been thinking the same thing myself - although I haven't even dipped a toe yet. The thing that concerns me, which you have covered by monitoring, is that other band members wouldn't have any bass feedback apart from what bleeds from the PA. Not a problem for you if the other guys/gals have their own monitor and can get some bass if they like. Can't see any reason why what you're suggesting (using a quality preamp / DI in lieu of an actual amp) wouldn't work just fine. I'm sure there's loads of people doing it already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I think it's a very viable option, and I do something like that when we play with the "good PA" (personal foldback monitor with individual mix for me). Half the time we play smaller venues where that doesn't work, or we have to go through the house PA. In these cases out comes one of my amps (almost invariably the PJB briefcase) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 Yeh the personal monitors and bass bleed from our subs should be ample for the rest of the band. I usually DI from my amp anyway, so if I dont need my amp to power my own speaker, a good Pre should be fine shouldn't it? At the moment i've got 2 amps and two cabs. I'll always keep one amp just incase it's needed, but no need for a spare incase my spare gives up the ghost is there?? Thinking i may sell one and use that money to get a good Pre. Played through a Avalon U5 before and that was amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1469606186' post='3099613'] Edit to add the question - If i DI the back of my existing Class D amp, without a load (no cab), will it work? I think i remember reading somewhere that Valve amps need a load to run, so not sure if that is the same case for Class D's? [/quote] Running no load is safe on any solid state amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1469614111' post='3099693'] Running no load is safe on any solid state amp. [/quote] Thought that was the case, thank you for the confirmation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 It sounds like a great plan to me, I might do the same at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1469622929' post='3099784'] It sounds like a great plan to me, I might do the same at some point. [/quote] Yeh the more i think about it, the more i realise it's ideal for me. Been trying to go lightweight for years, whilst keeping the quality of sound. Whats more lightweight than no amp and cab, just a specialised pre amp, being driven by the PA's power section and using the 2 subs we have as speakers?? Speaking to EBS_Freak on here has also opened my eyes to the possibility of just using the onboard pre amp on the Behringer X-18, which would mean no need for any gear other than a bass and lead?!?! Definitely going to give it a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1469623498' post='3099798'] Speaking to EBS_Freak on here has also opened my eyes to the possibility of just using the onboard pre amp on the Behringer X-18, which would mean no need for any gear other than a bass and lead?!?! Definitely going to give it a try [/quote] This was going to be my suggestion. The Behringer really is a very capable piece of kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1469625084' post='3099818'] This was going to be my suggestion. The Behringer really is a very capable piece of kit. [/quote] Yep - just looked at the behringer - inputs 1 & 2 are Hi-Z, so (I believe that means) you can plug instruments directly into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 Are you not meant to plug instruments into the other inputs? The only other instrument that gets plugged in is a keyboard, but it doesn't go in 1 or 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1469627929' post='3099847'] Are you not meant to plug instruments into the other inputs? The only other instrument that gets plugged in is a keyboard, but it doesn't go in 1 or 2 [/quote] I don't think you'll have a major headache plugging a keyboard in elsewhere. Our keyboard player plugs all three of his keyboards into his Roland monitor and then gives us a single DI out from there into the Behringer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1469628388' post='3099859'] I don't think you'll have a major headache plugging a keyboard in elsewhere. Our keyboard player plugs all three of his keyboards into his Roland monitor and then gives us a single DI out from there into the Behringer. [/quote] Yeh we've never had a problem before. Good to know though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1469627929' post='3099847'] Are you not meant to plug instruments into the other inputs? The only other instrument that gets plugged in is a keyboard, but it doesn't go in 1 or 2 [/quote] It'll be fine, all Hi-Z means is high impedance, like the input on a guitar/bass amp is, so if you plug a guitar/bass into it you'll get a stronger signal. Plugging guitars / Basses into line level inputs (which is what the other inputs are) just results in a quieter signal requiring more gain... All I meant was if you're gonna go straight from the Bass to the mixer via jack-jack, then use one of the Hi-Z inputs for the best signal. Edited July 27, 2016 by LewisK1975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1469630905' post='3099896'] It'll be fine, all Hi-Z means is high impedance, like the input on a guitar/bass amp is, so if you plug a guitar/bass into it you'll get a stronger signal. Plugging guitars / Basses into line level inputs (which is what the other inputs are) just results in a quieter signal requiring more gain... [/quote] Gotcha, cheers Lew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 And just to add, I think this is a brilliant idea, it's got my rusty old cogs going like the clappers. The biggest inter-band moan we get is stage/backline volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1469631219' post='3099898'] And just to add, I think this is a brilliant idea, it's got my rusty old cogs going like the clappers. The biggest inter-band moan we get is stage/backline volume. [/quote] Same here Lew. Which is what got my ass into motion in the first place. Welcome to come and try the In-Ears i have. An absolute revelation! Can't believe i hadn't tried them before. I'm slowly converting the rest of the band too. Eventually - no onstage volume! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Is there a reason you wouldn't want an amp? Even something small but half capable. Seems with all these tiny heads and lightweight cabs its not a massive hassle having a lightweight setup too. Why not have both? in ear monitors and a little rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1469632549' post='3099914'] Is there a reason you wouldn't want an amp? Even something small but half capable. Seems with all these tiny heads and lightweight cabs its not a massive hassle having a lightweight setup too. Why not have both? in ear monitors and a little rig. [/quote] Because with decent fitting inears you wouldn't hear your rig anyway. Less sound on stage = cleaner mix out front. Edited July 27, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1469632757' post='3099918'] Because with decent fitting inears you wouldn't hear your rig anyway. Less sound on stage = cleaner mix out front. [/quote] Yeah the first bit is obvious. The second bit is not always a fact there's loads of great sounding bands that have plenty of on stage volume. I understand the concept but it just seems wrong. I know things are pretty reliable but what if something goes wrong, what if you find you monitoring goes down, what if the pa goes down and your in a situation where a backline could of got you through a gig? Etc etc I just think its a back up and as equipment is getting lighter its not so much of a pain. And you can always turn your backline down if its messing with the sound out front. So imo yeah you don't need an amp at all but might you need one maybe and bands with nothing on the stage look so boring lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1469633666' post='3099930'] Yeah the first bit is obvious. [/quote] You say that but you would be surprised at home many people think IEMs are for vocal only and spend their life turning up their backline or wear one IEM in and one IEM out. So yes, obvious to some, far from obvious for others. [quote] The second bit is not always a fact there's loads of great sounding bands that have plenty of on stage volume. I understand the concept but it just seems wrong. I know things are pretty reliable but what if something goes wrong, what if you find you monitoring goes down, what if the pa goes down and your in a situation where a backline could of got you through a gig? Etc etc I just think its a back up and as equipment is getting lighter its not so much of a pain. And you can always turn your backline down if its messing with the sound out front. So imo yeah you don't need an amp at all but might you need one maybe and bands with nothing on the stage look so boring lol. [/quote] There are lots of great sounding bands with plenty of stage volume. There are more than the fair share of bands which sound crap with plenty of stage volume. I would wager the chances of a front of house mix sounding great would be greatly improved with less volume and consequently less bleed across mics, whether they be vocal mics or instrument mics. You'll have a lot less problems with feedback too. The what ifs are applicable to any situation. How many people carry around a spare PA - just in case it goes down? No PA, you've got no vocals... and with no vocals, you have no gig anyway. As for the monitoring going down... well, you can get a cable and headphone amp for less than £40. You can get that setup. I reckon I could buy a few of those for less than a price of an amp if I was that paranoid. If I needed to scrape through a gig, I could but say a spare set of shure 215s or even use some iPhone headphones. It may not be perfect but it would get me through the gig. To poo poo the idea of IEM is a bit of a dinosaur view on the way that gigging is going. Yes, theres plenty of guys that refuse to embrace IEM - that's fine. Nobody is twisting anybody's arm. And do amps on stage really matter to anybody apart from gear stalkers? If the audience are getting bored... it's not because of a lack of backline to look at. Edited July 27, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1469633666' post='3099930'] Yeah the first bit is obvious. The second bit is not always a fact there's loads of great sounding bands that have plenty of on stage volume. I understand the concept but it just seems wrong. I know things are pretty reliable but what if something goes wrong, what if you find you monitoring goes down, what if the pa goes down and your in a situation where a backline could of got you through a gig? Etc etc I just think its a back up and as equipment is getting lighter its not so much of a pain. And you can always turn your backline down if its messing with the sound out front. So imo yeah you don't need an amp at all but might you need one maybe and bands with nothing on the stage look so boring lol. [/quote] Yeh EBS_Freak has pretty much said what i was going to say. I understand your "what ifs" , but to the same point i could say what if my amp broke or my speaker popped etc Might happen but cant take spares for everything. If the PA blew mid gig it'd be no vocals so pretty crap anyway! As for other bands having loads of onstage volume, thats fine too. I don't want to be one of them, i quite enjoy hearing things! The amount of times i've gone home after gigging with ringing in my ears is starting to get more frequent, and the thing with hearing is once it's gone it don't come back! And it definitely helps us with mixing out front too. Looks a bit pants? Fair enough. I doubt many people in the general audience at the weddings i play at would even notice there was no backline for the bass. And the ones who did notice would probably be clued in to what was happening. Are you playing in a band or jamming or anything? I advise you to give them a go. Really an eye opening experience to play with IEMs. This coming from someone who had previously never used them in 17 years of gigging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 I'll always keep one spare amp in the house too incase i dep for a friend or whatever, but IEMs are definitely the future for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I'm heading this way Kert, although I'll probably keep my ShuttleMax for preamp/DI as it's easy to transport & I've got the foot switch for boost etc. Main thing for me is decent in ears without spending loads. Don't mind if they're wired. What system are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 Yeh makes sense bud. I'm probably going to DI off my amp anyway until i can become more familiar with the Behringer X18. Its the UE900s, recommended by EBS_Freak. He's the man to speak to for info on in-ears, but i'll bring mine up next time for you to have a bash at them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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