Paul Raven/Peter Hook-style ambitions

[highwayman]

Although I've only recently started learning bass, I have a strong idea of the sound/style I'd like to develop and eventually make my own.

I picked up the instrument due to Paul Raven's playing with Killing Joke in the mid-80's - particularly on [i]Night Time,[/i]my all time favourite bass album, and I'm also hugely admiring of Peter Hook's unique sound/style.

While it's early days for me (and I appreciate the obvious answer is practice!), what elements of my playing, technique etc. should I develop in my aim to become (along with my own style) a hybrid of the aforementioned bassists?

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Consider this - Peter Hook developed his style as a result of the restrictions of the equipment he had at his disposal, the musical situation he was in and ignorance about how to do things "properly", all these factors combined to create something unique to him.

If you carefully transcribed all his basslines, with enough time/effort you could imitate the recordings, but regardless of how good that imitation is, you will still be missing the attitude, thought process and personality that created the music in the first place.

I would recommend that you just join (or form) a band and let your own style develope - the music you love will be embedded in your synapses and influence your playing as a matter of course. Being influenced by the attitude and philosophy of someone you admire is much more subtle than just copying their music (and generates much more interesting results IMHO).

[tonyquipment]

Play what feels fun and enjoyable to you, you have idols which is great

I would always endeavour to be yourself rather than someone else 😋

[skankdelvar]

I don't know much about either of these players; but I think that short of having specially tailored lessons the key to copping someone's style is to gather as much written and musical information as one can. Then immerse oneself in the artist and their output, try to understand their approach and incorporate it into one's own.

Seek out published interviews, youtube clips, tab, notation, equipment lists and - of course - a representative selection of their recorded music. Once that's together just sit and read and watch and listen. Allowing for the interruptions imposed by a normal working lifestyle, this could take days or even weeks. Learn everything you can. Listen to songs over and over again.

Having got a general feel for what they're doing go deeper and try to identify the artist's approach to supporting songs; what they do when faced with different tempos and chord progressions; their choice of notes; the phrasing of the notes including things like placement, attack, duration. Nail down what it is they're doing.

During this phase you'll identify some of the things that make them sound different to other bass players - personal mannerisms, for want of a better description. Now find some bass-free loops or backing tracks that fit the genre and play along with them, constructing bass lines that incorporate some of the stylistic traits you've identified. If possible, record your efforts and review them.

Try putting the mannerisms you've learned into different songs and contexts. Try breaking each of the mannerisms down into smaller components, jumble them up and put them back together again.

Once you've got this stuff under your fingers go right back to the start. Watch and listen to the original music again. Now you know what he's doing on the bass, listen to it in the context of the song. Keep this up for long enough and you'll absorb the key characteristics. Then - when you're next faced with the need to construct a bass line for a song - think about how much of the artist's style you want to let bleed through.

The other thing: don't try to learn Hook and Raven's styles at the same time. Nail one, then move on to the other.

Step one: Google [url="https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=peter%20hook%20bass%20style"]Peter Hook Bass Style[/url]

Enjoy and good luck.

[highwayman]

Great replies thank you all - skankdelvar, I appreciate you going into so much depth.

I aim to one day be a player with my own distinctive sound/style, but I think identifying these two as my main influences gives me a direction to aim for.

[Roger2611]

Both great players, Night Time had one of the best bass / drum mixes of it's time, I still think it stands up really well today ( I was lucky enough to see Killing Joke play the album live at Rock City back in 1986 ish), I would say learn to play as many of the songs by these players that you can, as you progress as a player you will find you write basslines with certain songs by these artists in the back of your mind, you will find that your bassline is inspired by them but should stand up as your own style.

Both players have been a big influence to me I doubt my playing sounds anything like either of them but they continue to influence how I approach writing a bassline

[darren]

Buy a chorus pedal (and maybe an overdrive) and play around the 12th fret.

[chriswareham]

Hooky is one of my biggest influences. I can echo what others have said - try to play as many Joy Division or New Order bass parts as possible to build up a sub-conscious memory of the styles Hooky uses. I have a few JD tabs here:

http://www.chriswareham.net/jdtabs/index.html

Paul Raven was actually a very versatile player, and could fit into a number of different styles of band without necessarily sounding distinctly similar. See his work with Prong for example. However, on Killing Joke's Night Time album I'd argue it's mostly about his tone. He was using an active bass, and it sounds like a lot of compression was used in the mixing of the album. The Eighties bassline is a bit of an exception though, and actually sounds quite like something Peter Hook would play.

As for Hooky's style, it's often about playing quite high up the neck with plenty of chorus on. You can nail that tone exactly with an Electro Harmonix Clone Theory pedal (the current model is very close to the sound of the original ones that Hooky uses). As others have pointed out, it was the limitations of his equipment that encourage him to play in his "lead bass" style, since he couldn't hear himself very well when he played around the first five frets on the lower strings!

[2elliot]

Following this thread with interest.

I'm in that type of band, all original material but with those sort of distinctive tones.

I'll be checking out that Clone pedal for sure.

I'm currently running a Zoom B3 set with two chorus pedals and a flanger,plus a bass soul food for extra drive. Trace Elliot AH600-12 with everything on and the mids boosted.

A pick works great for this sound unfortunately I can't hold one so it's fingers for me and a boost in the mids.

Check out Bauhaus, early Sisters of Mercy and The Cure. They all have a very similar sound...

SS amp, chorus, distortion and compression

Practice experiment and enjoy. It's taken me 10 month to get to my current sound, and I'm still fiddling.

[highwayman]

Do -did in Raven's case- both bassists play predominately with plectrums? I've tried playing 'Love Like Blood' without one & it doesn't sound right.

[chriswareham]

Craig Adams era Sisters Of Mercy was valve amps (except the very early days when I think he had a HH solid state combo). He was often pictured with an Ampeg SVT-CL and loved a heavily overdriven sound. Simon Gallup was a solid state Peavey user with a sound that wasn't overdriven, but he often had lots of chorus or flanger on instead. Chorus and flanger was quite a common effect on "goth" bass sounds, check out a lot of Play Dead stuff for instance (Shine, Gaze or Isabel are great examples as well as great, bass lead songs).

[chriswareham]

[quote name='highwayman' timestamp='1469707768' post='3100482']
Do -did in Raven's case- both bassists play predominately with plectrums? I've tried playing 'Love Like Blood' without one & it doesn't sound right.
[/quote]

I've never seen pictures of Raven playing without a plectrum, and I'd be surprised if Hooky has ever tried (particularly with his bass positioned so low).

[chriswareham]

Here's a great example of Play Dead and chorused bass:

http://youtu.be/-2SzF1Z_v3o

Edited July 28, 2016 by chriswareham

[2elliot]

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1469708460' post='3100494']
Craig Adams era Sisters Of Mercy was valve amps (except the very early days when I think he had a HH solid state combo). He was often pictured with an Ampeg SVT-CL and loved a heavily overdriven sound. Simon Gallup was a solid state Peavey user with a sound that wasn't overdriven, but he often had lots of chorus or flanger on instead. Chorus and flanger was quite a common effect on "goth" bass sounds, check out a lot of Play Dead stuff for instance (Shine, Gaze or Isabel are great examples as well as great, bass lead songs).
[/quote]

Cheers Chris

Great info, I love this type of music.

Yes, Craig Adams ran a HH with a distortion pedal via an active Ibanez, I thought he moved over to Ampeg later in his career. Great sounds which ever he used, love the bass sound on Alice,that's probably my favourite. Simon Gallup uses ampeg too, 2 x svt200 I think. It's definitely solid state, along with boss pedals including metal distortion, if you check out some of the recent live footage the bass sound is unbelievably aggressive. I was quite shocked when I heard it.

Keep the info coming, it's very interesting.

[highwayman]

Would it be fair to say that Raven & Hook play bass in an unconventional, guitar-like way much of the time?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='highwayman' timestamp='1469872884' post='3101601']
Would it be fair to say that Raven & Hook play bass in an unconventional, guitar-like way much of the time?
[/quote]

Hook maybe. Not so sure about Raven.

[Skybone]

Craig Adams, to me, is synonymous with a Thunderbird. Don't know when he got it, but all of the early Sisters stuff I've seen with him, The MIssion and beyond, it's been T'bird. Underrated player.

Tony Pettitt's playing with The Fields of the Nephilim was rather good too.

I think that Raven mostly used a pick, search for KJ video's on YouTube.

[Deep Thought]

Loved the Sisters, saw them 4 times in the mid-eighties, including the ill-advised Leeds festival gig. Was interested to see Craig Adams supporting the Stranglers with The Alarm earlier this year.
Hooky is on record as saying he was heavily influenced by JJ Burnel incidentally, although he doesn't use much chorus!

[bartelby]

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1469980327' post='3102434']

Tony Pettitt's playing with The Fields of the Nephilim was rather good too.

[/quote]

Back when I started playing bass I was always playing along to the B side of The Nephilim.
I couldn't just play the one track, it had to be all 3.

[blue]

I think it's always good to have influence's. I certainly did when I started playing in the 60s. Never heard of the 2 mentioned by the OP.

Blue

[Skybone]

[quote name='Deep Thought' timestamp='1470046238' post='3102834']
Loved the Sisters, saw them 4 times in the mid-eighties, including the ill-advised Leeds festival gig. Was interested to see Craig Adams supporting the Stranglers with The Alarm earlier this year.
Hooky is on record as saying he was heavily influenced by JJ Burnel incidentally, although he doesn't use much chorus!
[/quote]

I you haven't heard I, check out the Coloursound album, Mike Peters, BIlly Duffy & Crag Adams. Superb, and very underrated.

IIRC, Craig has been playing with The Alarm for quite some time

[Deep Thought]

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1470074680' post='3103097']


I you haven't heard I, check out the Coloursound album, Mike Peters, BIlly Duffy & Crag Adams. Superb, and very underrated.

IIRC, Craig has been playing with The Alarm for quite some time
[/quote]

I will! I wasn't aware that Craig was playing with the Alarm, (my first thought was that it was The Bass Thing from the Wonder Stuff-unlikely as the poor chap died in 1993!), mainly because I never actually liked the Alarm. I was actually pleasantly surprised when I caught the tail end of their set. He had a lot more hair the last time I saw him! I have a lot of time for Billy Duffy, loved his work with Spear of Destiny and the Cult.

[highwayman]

"Never heard of the 2 mentioned by the OP" - blue, take a listen to Paul Raven's bass on Killing Joke's 'Love Like Blood, Kings and Queens' and 'Eighties'.

[Marc Day]

The fact that you've been inspired by Raven and want to develop a similar sound, but make it your own tells me that you're already on the right track. Raven and Geddy Lee are my all time fave bass players. Obviously totally different players and music, but the thing they had in common was that they always played what was perfect for the song. The right sound and an understanding of the music is what it's about for me.

 

[Doctor J]

He was on the right track 7 years ago. Who knows where he night be now? 😂