Active PA wiring up ?

[Les]

Mackie powered tops and Peavey powered subs (2 of)

Should I take the output from the desk into the tops first and link into the subs from the tops or into the subs first then into the tops ?
Or does it make any difference ?

ta

Les

[skidder652003]

Oh dear, Ive had a bollocking on here for something similar!
Everything from the desk, don't connect any speaker to another if they're active.
ie. use the 2 main outs from the desk to each top and then 2 aux outs to each sub, at least thats what I was told.

Edited July 29, 2016 by skidder652003

[Les]

Thanks Skidder, I do that now, I use the utility out (same as the master outs) on our Mackie desk to send a signal to the bins, plus I can control how much goes to them but \i'm trying a different desk tonmorrow.

All the speakers have a link/through out on them as they are designed to send a signal on, just wondering if there's a rule of thumb on which gets the signal first.

[JapanAxe]

Your setup seems the most flexible but uses a lot of cable. You can daisy chain signal connections between powered speakers, but you don't want to connect a speaker-level output to a line-level input!

[lurksalot]

My EV's have a through signal to daisy chain them , but with miss matching brands I wouldn't know whether they apply frequency crossovers to the overall signal or handle the frequency they are best at and pass the complete signal through to the next cab IYSWIM

[mrtcat]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1469826339' post='3101410']
Oh dear, Ive had a bollocking on here for something similar!
Everything from the desk, don't connect any speaker to another if they're active.
ie. use the 2 main outs from the desk to each top and then 2 aux outs to each sub, at least thats what I was told.
[/quote]

Entirely depends on which subs and tops you have. Our subs have a high pass through and inbuilt xover so we run two xlrs from desk main outs (one to each sub) and then an xlr from each sub to the top above it. If you tell us which subs and tops you have we can tell you best way to wire them. Alternatively just download the manual from the Web and follow the instructions.

[Les]

SRM 450 tops and Peavey messenger Pro subs

[Phil Starr]

Hi Les, yes it does matter. Somewhere in the chain you need to have a crossover so the bass only goes to the subs and is Stopped from going to the tops. There might be a crossover built into your mixer or the subs. There isn't one in the tops.

I couldn't find a manual for the Peavey so I can't help there much, it has a crossover to the sub but you need to find out if it has a high pass output to the tops. If not then you may need a separate crossover.

If you can find a link to a manual for the Peavey I'll have a look for you

[Les]

Cheers Phil

[url="http://www.manualslib.com/manual/772735/Peavey-Messenger-Series-Pro-Sub-P.html?page=2#manual"]http://www.manualslib.com/manual/772735/Peavey-Messenger-Series-Pro-Sub-P.html?page=2#manual[/url]

[tauzero]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1469826339' post='3101410']
Oh dear, Ive had a bollocking on here for something similar!
Everything from the desk, don't connect any speaker to another if they're active.
ie. use the 2 main outs from the desk to each top and then 2 aux outs to each sub, at least thats what I was told.
[/quote]

Why? Some subs are designed with crossovers/high pass filters so you send the signal to the sub and it sends the treble component to the top. Seems logical to use that, and the purpose-designed circuitry, rather than sending a less-controlled signal to the mains from the desk.

[Phil Starr]

Hi Les

Looks like you are unlucky. The Peavey has a filter so that only the bass gets through (a low pass filter) to the sub, but everything goes through to the tops. That means the tops will still have to deal with all the bass. More modern designs will usually have a complete crossover built into the sub, often with two outputs offering the option of filtered or unfiltered.

So run the leads to the subs and you can then daisy chain the tops from the subs. This will bethe same as running all the leads from the desk or running to the tops and then the subs but its probably going to be the tiniest solution on stage, less to trip over. With this set up you'll be getting just a little bass boost from the subs but the tops will still get all the bass so you'll still need to avoid overloading them. It'll work but isn't the best way of using subs. You could experiment with rolling off the bass by using the soloist mode on the Mackie, or even the monitor mode, though this cuts some midst as well. Try fiddling around with different combinations when you are rehearsing. If it sounds good use it if not then keep it simple.

Ideally though you ought to think of getting a crossover if you are going to use this a lot at high volume levels, cutting the bass to the tops will give you a better sound and more headroom. They cost less than £100 for a budget brand.

[Les]

Cheers for taking the time to check that Phil, pretty much my conclusions too

I'm not really a novice when it comes to PA's just never daisy chained the speakers before like most people usually do.

All 4 boxes run quite happily with a full range signal at the moment, I use the low cut on the tops as they don't need the extra work of the sub frequencies when we're using bins and the bins get the "utility out" signal from the desk which is basically the same fullrange output as your master faders, it's the kind of thing you would use to link into a house PA with.

The desk I'm trialling also has a mono fader which will send a full range mono signal out, I may use that and link the bins then I have the control over the bass end that I'm used to with the Mackie desk.

Will probably try daisy chaining from the bins first tonight. I have no doubt I can get this working it just that I'm trialling this under gig conditions and as the bass player I have to play bass, sing, do the sound, work the lights, make sure the band sit the correct way on the toilet, supply spare leads, make sure everyones monitor is the loudest thing on the planet etc etc etc. You get my drift

Just wondered if there was a general way of daisy chaining so I didn't have to think about it tonight with everything else I'll have on my plate.

Thanks for everyones input

Les

[stingrayPete1977]

Get yourself an Xair mixer, tops off the main outs with more control than you could ever wish for,subs off an aux out where you can control the sub mix beyond your wildest dreams,with full control over each active speaker like that you won't be able to get anymore from the speakers you have. Individual monitor mixes and an fx rack you would need a separate van for alone if you went analogue!

[amnesia]

Run left and right main outputs to the sub inputs

Set the low pass frequency on the subs to suit (page 7 of the earlier linked instructions)

Use the unfiltered (aka full range) link output from the sub to give you the input for the tops. (page 2 and 6 in the instructions)

Then as you said, wind back the low frequency response of the tops and you're good to go.

Edited July 30, 2016 by amnesia

[4stringslow]

The SRM450s have a 'low cut' switch that filters out frequencies below about 75Hz, so take the main desk feed to the subs, use the sub's 'feed thru' output to connect to the SRM450s and set the 'low cut' switch to on.

Saves wasting a couple of AUX outputs that can be used for stage monitors.

[Les]

Worked a treat

Thanks everyone

Les