Jack Bruce (ish) EB3 / SG Bass

[Andyjr1515]

For anyone who is bemused or interested by the above topic, [url="http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/NeckAngle/"]Tundra Man has an excellent article here[/url]

This is an illustration from that article:


...so when you are designing a guitar or bass, you establish:[list]
[*]Where the top is
[*]Where the bridge will sit
[*]How high the bridge saddles are above the top and what adjustability there is
[*]Where the top of the fretboard and frets will be
[*]Where the nut will be
[*]What angle of neck allows you to achieve the desired action height of the strings above the frets at, say the 22nd fret and allow a reasonable adjustment of the saddle height either way. Generally, where there is a reasonable upward adjustment of the bridge, I set the neck angle so that the strings are just above the 22nd fret with the bridge at its lowest position and then just wind up the bridge / saddles to the desired action height.
[/list]

[White Cloud]

Awesome thread

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1471519732' post='3113601']
Awesome thread
[/quote]
+1

[Andyjr1515]

The nut to body taper of the neck has been rough band-sawn, the mating surfaces of the neck and body sections have been squared up and the first half of the body is now glued and clamped:




Note the wenge veneer between the two components. The wenge veneer glued to the back of the top will effectively surround the neck when viewed from the back. I did the same with FuNkShUi's single cut:


In fact, other than the different colours of the body wood, it will look pretty much like this

Edited August 19, 2016 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

The first back wing is now glued and I have checked the flatness in relation to the neck:



From the back it looks almost identical (just as well, really!):


Because the top is slightly unstable, it is critical that the top-surface of the back is [i]completely [/i]flat. That way, when I clamp the living daylights out of the top onto the back, I should be able to achieve a gap-free almost competent looking join (well - here's hoping )

Because of this, when I have come to glue the second back panel, I have flipped the bass over to make absolutely sure the final mating surface is going to becompletely flat. My workbench is flat and I have used a number of top clamps, holding both the neck assembly and the second back panel firmly to the workbench top. I've also heartily whacked all components with a heavy hide mallet to make sure they are fully in position. Then I have used the bench vice, a couple of sash clamps and some standard screw clamps to hold it tight and flat:



Note the clingfilm to stop it all being comprehensively glued to the bench!

With any luck, this finished surface should need no levelling prior to the top being clamped on (again, here's hoping!)

Edited August 20, 2016 by Andyjr1515

[Bastav]

Youre working very fast! Looking good

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Bastav' timestamp='1471690405' post='3115053']
Youre working very fast! Looking good
[/quote]
Got a bit of a break after today so I've been trying to get ahead

[Andyjr1515]

I've checked the flatness of the joining surface of the back and, after a couple of minutes with a scraper, it's good to go. But before I glue on the top, I need to route or cut the various chambers.

These include:[list]
[*]Straight through control chamber - the sides will then act as a router bearing guide when I route the top to thickness for the pots.
[*]Cable runs from the pickup chambers to the control chamber
[*]Weight relief routs
[/list]
Although one is optional here, this is broadly where they will be. Each has to be clear of structural essentials, such as the bridge bushes, but I also like to keep clear of any chamfering areas, even though break-through is highly unlikely:


The top left hand side weight relief chamber is optional and - depending on the overall weight when I've done the others - probably won't be routed. Reason for this is that it is useful tail-end weight to counteract any neck-heavy tendency, particularly when you think of all the wood that will be removed for the control chamber itself.

[Andyjr1515]

Still got to do the finish-rout of the control chamber, but the rest of the chambers and channels are functional only and won't be seen, so they will be left as below:


I'm going to leave the top left pencilled chamber unrouted. I'm down to a projected finish weight of around 8 1/2 lb, which I think is OK.

If there is no neck dive and the finish weight turns out to be heavier than expected, I can always rout a 'false' control chamber from the back after everything else is sorted. I don't think that will be necessary, though

I don't think there is anything stopping me gluing the top on now!

Edited August 24, 2016 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

Well, as the mantra goes, 'you can't have too many clamps!'

But actually, you can have too few and this is borderline too few:


With the help of the cauls, I think it will be OK - but the schoolboy error was forgetting that I almost never glue a [u]whole top[/u] on with the unconventional way I build guitars and basses. That'll teach me to go conventional on this one!

Ideally, I would have at least half as many again...

I had a quick look at the sides and I don't think there are any gaps but I'll know for sure in the morning when it is ceremonially unclamped!

Edited August 24, 2016 by Andyjr1515

[Norris]

I did like the thread on PG where someone calculated the "cone of clamping pressure" and made a paper template for the clamping locations. Never enough clamps though - I'm going to have to invest in a few sash clamps for my next build!

Lovely work so far Andy. I wish I could work as quickly as you

(PG = ProjectGuitar.com if you are into your build threads)

[Andyjr1515]

Well, the top is on good or not




I'm very pleased to say that, despite my fear of not really enough clamps, the cauls did their job and I have the best join I've ever achieved - I usually have SOME gaps, but it is pretty much like this all the way round:




I'm pleased and relieved....

While I routered the bulk of the back, using the top as the template, it is too dodgy at the very ends of the horns so I will finish those off with files and sandpaper.

Then it's carving the chamfer!

[White Cloud]

Fantastic!

[Andyjr1515]

LOADS of scraping, filing and sanding to do, but couldn't resist a sneak preview

Edited August 25, 2016 by Andyjr1515

[scojack]

oh now were talking that top's a belter, can't help but notice the nice mahogany on the neck as well ....quality stuff Andy.Top notch carving too.
Ian

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='scojack' timestamp='1472150414' post='3118946']
oh now were talking that top's a belter, can't help but notice the nice mahogany on the neck as well ....quality stuff Andy.Top notch carving too.
Ian
[/quote]

Thanks, Ian

The neck timber is the best I think I've used to date (all credit to David Dyke). The top is from Kirk at exotichardwoodsukltd

[3below]

Which red stain are you using? Apologies if mentioned earlier.

[Andyjr1515]

I'm going to use what I usually use...and what often kicks off a debate . - red fountain pen ink. Specifically Diamine ink. I may try a few different reds to get one that looks right with this particular mahogany.

[Bass Culture]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1472154840' post='3119007']
I'm going to use what I usually use...and what often kicks off a debate . - red fountain pen ink. Specifically Diamine ink. I may try a few different reds to get one that looks right with this particular mahogany.
[/quote]

As a fountain pen user myself i'd say Diamine definitely offer the largest range of inks and they're also a top quality, British product. As an alternative though you might also want to look at Pelikan Edelstein Ruby Red. Those are really good inks too.
BC

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1472154840' post='3119007']
I'm going to use what I usually use...and what often kicks off a debate . - red fountain pen ink. Specifically Diamine ink. I may try a few different reds to get one that looks right with this particular mahogany.
[/quote]

Why does this "kick off a debate".

Surely as long as the wood takes the colour and it is reasonably light-fast it shouldn't matter what it was originally intended for?

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1472214045' post='3119504']


Why does this "kick off a debate".

Surely as long as the wood takes the colour and it is reasonably light-fast it shouldn't matter what it was originally intended for?
[/quote]
It is simply that a few of the colours are actually not fully light-fast. Having said that, nor were Gibson's

Personally, I've never had any problems with the fairly wide range of colours I've used and my own guitars and basses hang on the wall in full sunlight.

[Norris]

He"s probably talking about me I did some colour fastness tests on several lovely shades of blue, that faded quite badly. I had no issues with the red I tested. Wanting a blue guitar, I had to resort to the limited range of blue shades available as "proper" aniline wood dyes. I'd rather have used the ink if it hasn't faded so badly - ending up almost grey in some cases.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1472215497' post='3119530']
He"s probably talking about me I did some colour fastness tests on several lovely shades of blue, that faded quite badly. I had no issues with the red I tested. Wanting a blue guitar, I had to resort to the limited range of blue shades available as "proper" aniline wood dyes. I'd rather have used the ink if it hasn't faded so badly - ending up almost grey in some cases.
[/quote]
Just to clarify, Norris and have been working in unison on this. .
Norris has done some accelerated fade tests on specific colours which produced some interesting results.

Linked to Norris's practical experiments, it is on my ever increasing 'to do' list to contact Diamine to see if they actually have fade stats for each of their colours. I used to use only calligraphy inks (designed to stay legible for hundreds if not thousands of years....think Lindisfarne Gospels) but, of course, the colour choice is limited. The colour choice for standard inks is VAST, but there lies the unknown.

I've used reds, greens, blues, turquoise, yellows and oranges and, to date, have never had any fade issues...but there may well be come colours in the range that are not so great. Hence Norris and I spending time on it because it's very cheap and an un-matchable range of colours if we can be sure which ones to avoid.

This is the debate

Edited August 26, 2016 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Bass Culture' timestamp='1472204479' post='3119374']


As a fountain pen user myself i'd say Diamine definitely offer the largest range of inks and they're also a top quality, British product. As an alternative though you might also want to look at Pelikan Edelstein Ruby Red. Those are really good inks too.
BC
[/quote]
Yes, BC - I've used Pelikan in the past too. Good range also for anyone who is interested in trying it out.

One of the reasons, while we're back on the topic all, that I (and maybe BC too?) like using these inks is that the wood you are applying any stain to makes a HUGE difference to the finish stained colour.

As such, the end result almost always is nothing like the colour sample you start with. If you take the 'traditional' stains, such as the excellent Chestnut Spirit stains, that means that you are going to end up with the colour you end up with and not necessarily the colour you had in your head.

With the vast range of ink colours, with people like Diamine also doing sample quantities, you can try maybe 5 shades to get much closer to what you're aiming for.

Not saying you should use ink, just saying that's why I do

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1472154019' post='3118995']
Which red stain are you using? Apologies if mentioned earlier.
[/quote]
Ignore the neck tenon, but this is probably the kind of shade I'll be aiming for, a WIP double cut electric I'm doing for myself. It will probably look a bit darker on the SG's wood but similar tones. Bear in mind of course that cameras and monitors struggle like hell to reproduce reds properly.