Behringer DeepMind12 Synthesizer - New 12 Voice Analogue Synth

[HowieBass]

For those of you into synths, Behringer have a new toy due out soon. I stumbled across this on YouTube, a discussion with the developers Midas - part of the Music Group business (and oddly enough, they're based in Manchester in an office block that's opposite to where I once worked):

http://youtu.be/caMT4BYFCCk

The first look reactions of various musicians is interesting too. First part of 5 clips is this one:

https://youtu.be/7_KYEtspRa0

What I didn't realise (until I looked up what Music Group is) is that TC Electronic is part of the same conglomerate.

[bartelby]

The desktop module looks pretty cool!

[charic]

The question is, will you be able to get any decent sounds out of it... and what's the cost?

[pete.young]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1470150401' post='3103625']
The question is, will you be able to get any decent sounds out of it... and what's the cost?
[/quote]
Point of order m'lud, that's two questions!

[HowieBass]

The set of five videos with (presumably) experienced synth players (eg Neil Davidge) all seemed to indicate it sounded fantastic with comments such as it sounding like a cross between a Juno and an Oberheim.

Another clip here:

http://youtu.be/UBL7rfOMyDU

[BigRedX]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1470176351' post='3103938']
The set of five videos with (presumably) experienced synth players (eg Neil Davidge) all seemed to indicate it sounded fantastic with comments such as it sounding like a cross between a Juno and an Oberheim.
[/quote]

Why do musicians now salivate over the Juno sound? Back in the early 80s when these were new no one would have bought a Juno if they could have afforded a Jupiter or a Prophet 5.

[AustinArto]

I've never liked Roland's sliders interface, but if it's under a grand (well it's Behringer so maybe it will be) I'll gake a punt.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1470183985' post='3103971']
Why do musicians now salivate over the Juno sound? Back in the early 80s when these were new no one would have bought a Juno if they could have afforded a Jupiter or a Prophet 5.
[/quote]

I've long tried to understand this... without succeeding.
Right now it seems to me that it's especially people creating electronic dance music who find the sound usable. From comments I read on ze innerwebz I conclude it's basically not the synth engine but the specific character of the original Juno's built-in effects that does it.
Me, I can't stand it, but then I'm not very tolerant of cheap, simple synths and their ghastly pads.
There! I said it!



That said, apparently the DM12 is capable of a lot more than a Juno is, with its flexible modulation routing and some nifty tricks.
It's reported to be a weird one, this, combining advancedness with simplicity in sometimes weird ways.
Sounds intriguing to me.


BTW, according to Uli Behringer the desktop does not exist.
He seems to state (he's good at that) they're only thinking of maybe making one.

[Spike Vincent]

Nice, but I'll stick with the Monotron for now..

[RhysP]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1470183985' post='3103971']
Why do musicians now salivate over the Juno sound? Back in the early 80s when these were new no one would have bought a Juno if they could have afforded a Jupiter or a Prophet 5.
[/quote]

I've wondered about that too, at the time I can't remember anyone loving the Juno stuff, they were pretty weedy sounding.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1470398772' post='3105734']
I've wondered about that too, at the time I can't remember anyone loving the Juno stuff, they were pretty weedy sounding.
[/quote]

I know plenty of people who owned them back in the day, but as far as I can recall not a single one of them bought one for any reason other than the fact they were the cheapest polysynth available. The only advantage I could see was the high-pass filter could allow your sounds to cut through a guitar-biased mix by reducing the overall bassiness of the sound.

I've never been a fan of single oscillator and envelope generator synths. They are simply not versatile enough. When I bought my first mono synth I compromised on playability and interface options by getting an EDP Wasp simply because the sonic possibilities were far superior over ever other synth in the same price range.

[BassTractor]

Behringer teaser #6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nqiEj7StYI

[Rich]

My bandmate back in the 80s had the JX-3P. Much more versatile and better sounding than the Junos IMO.

[HowieBass]

My mate had (still has) the JX-3P as well and also the additional magnetically attached controller - great sounding synth. This came after his first synth purchase of a Yamaha CS15 which he again (I think) still has (another nice piece of kit too). Numerous MIDI interfaced expander modules followed (as did a drum machine and a sequencer) so I doubt he'll be interested in the DeepMind 12... I still don't dare show him the YouTube clips though!

[BassTractor]

You can colour me impressed and intrigued for now.
Yes, it did start out as a Juno 106 clone before feature creep reared its ugly head. Now it's more like a Super Juno, with a special type of PWM on DCO2 (see ani-gif below) and not only oscillator drift control but also a separate drift control for other parameters.
Also, you can choose between different types of curving for (I assume) attack and release (though this may go for decay as well), and the list goes on and on.
If this is a Juno, then I stopped hating Junos today.

[url="http://s1170.photobucket.com/user/basstractor1/media/Behringer%20DM12%20display%20ani_zpshd580tu3.gif.html"][/url]


Mind, it's still a traditional machine with limited range, and it's probably not really the instrument for me, but if it's cheap enough, I might just add it to my other synths. I think it's quite usable in a mix, also because of the perceived quality of the built-in effects.

Edited August 7, 2016 by BassTractor

[HowieBass]

Not so much feature creep as they (Midas) didn't want to merely replicate a Juno 106 but (I assume) looked at what people liked about the original and added a lot more in order to eliminate the original's shortcomings and add functions that improve the sound. Uli had a vision for a 12 voice analogue synth (initially Midas thought it'd follow the trend for 8 voices) and this is what they've come up with. The two guys in the video I linked to have also said this is the first synth they've developed.

[charic]

I'm kind of interested for a few sounds but this will have to be very cheap to actually tempt me fully I think

[BassTractor]

Uli Behringer has announced a US$ 1,000 price today, but used both RSP and "MAP", so this is not entirely clear - but at least we now know the ballpark we're in.

Would I buy a 1,000 quid analogue Super Juno above a 600 quid digital Blofeld Keyboard?
Not likely. But I do know that many, many others would.

[BassTractor]

Now this is starting to look awesome for a bread 'n' butter synth.
Loopable EGs triggered by an LFO that goes up and into audio range, and the different ADSR curvings work very well indeed:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZYZl4KPT3k[/media]


Edit: Huh? Something new about YT linking?
How about this:

https://youtu.be/5ZYZl4KPT3k

Edited August 14, 2016 by BassTractor

[Woodinblack]

Would love one of those, although I would prefer rotary knobs rather than sliders, and I am not sure how much it would give me over the blofeld, but for use in the house it would be fun.
I assume the $1000 will translate as £1000.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1471193588' post='3111148']
I am not sure how much it would give me over the blofeld, but for use in the house it would be fun.
[/quote]

Ha! Good point.
I'd guess that by large it will probably give nothing or very little over the Blofeld. That's why I personally am not even looking at it before I have bought my much missed Blofeld back.

This looks like a simple synth with some nifty tricks up both its sleeves.
The Blofeld on the other hand is EVIL.

Edited August 15, 2016 by BassTractor

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1471204888' post='3111277']
I'd guess that by large it will probably give nothing or very little over the Blofeld. That's why I personally am not even looking at it before I have bought my much missed Blofeld back.
[/quote]

I suppose what this has over the blofeld is a load of knobs that you can edit on the fly.

[chriswareham]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1470399772' post='3105746']
I'venever been a fan of single oscillator and envelope generator synths. They are simply not versatile enough. When I bought my first mono synth I compromised on playability and interface options by getting an EDP Wasp simply because the sonic possibilities were far superior over ever other synth in the same price range.
[/quote]

My Jupiter 4 is capable of an extraordinary range of sounds despite being only a single oscillator synth. The Wasp had a great filter, but based on the one I tinkered with it was almost unplayable thanks to the "keyboard" and the oscillators were really under featured waveform wise.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1471193087' post='3111141']
Now this is starting to look awesome for a bread 'n' butter synth.
Loopable EGs triggered by an LFO that goes up and into audio range, and the different ADSR curvings work very well indeed:
[/quote]

Loopable EGs are a great idea if you to play live without sequencers (although you still have to find some way of synchronising the other performances with them), however so long as there is a good MIDI CC implementation you can duplicate the effect far more easily on a DAW or sequencer.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1471210351' post='3111338']
My Jupiter 4 is capable of an extraordinary range of sounds despite being only a single oscillator synth. The Wasp had a great filter, but based on the one I tinkered with it was almost unplayable thanks to the "keyboard" and the oscillators were really under featured waveform wise.
[/quote]

Everyone has different ideas about what constitutes a good sounding synth, but it's hardly fair to compare the monophonic Wasp with a poly synth costing 10 times as much. The Jupiter 4 despite having only a single oscillator per voice was never going to sound thin due to the fact that it was polyphonic, and it's voice assignment meant that a lot of the time if you are not playing chords, you actually have 2 oscillators (or even all 4) per note. That combined with separate EGs for the VCF and VCA and the classic Roland chorus is what made it sound so good.

A fair comparison for the Wasp would be the Roland SH09 which despite being quite a bit more expensive and having a proper keyboard and more useful performance controls wasn't even remotely capable of the same depth of sound. I know because I own both in the early 80s.