Diagnosing/valuing a bass

[DanOwens]

I'm going to look at a bass at the end of the week and although I understand about what features qualify a bass as better or more expensive (construction, fingerboard etc), I don't know how to tell by looking.

The bass is missing strings and a tailpiece so I can't play it and judge its value. I have to do it in sight so how on earth so I figure out if it's ply, solid or hybrid? I've got a good idea on fingerboards and painted, rosewood and ebony identification.

What else should I be looking at? When I bought my first car my dad gave me a checklist of what to look at. Is there and equivalent with uprights?

Edited August 2, 2016 by DanOwens

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm not an expert but a few musts from me to get you started,

is the sound post in place and is the bass bar there?

Any major cracks or splits?

Any bulging or sunken areas front or back where the sound post lines up and near the bridge?

Why doesn't it have strings?

Look at the edges of the F holes to see if it's a solid piece of wood or layers of ply, look inside (take a torch) if the wood grain is nothing like the outside it's going to be ply.


Anymore anyone?

[philparker]

For me, it really is all about the sound/tone, volume, projection etc. As well as the quality of construction, which doesn't help you much, but be aware that the more you pay doesn't necessarily get you better quality. I've had the fortune to play half a dozen good DBs in the last 12 months and my valuation often doesn't match that of the owner.

There's nothing wrong with a ply bass depending upon what use you have planned for it? However, it might not be suitable for orchestral playing. I can't describe how to check the difference between ply and solid wood, perhaps someone else will offer words of wisdom? Cracks are ok if they've been repaired and stabilised (my 1930s DB has quite a few!) check for a label and any provenance of the instrument and of course the age.

If you're really unsure - take lots of photos and post them on here and we might be able to form a collective consensus!

[Beedster]

You can sometimes check for ply construction by looking at the wood in the f-holes, depending on the degree of finish present.

Unless it's very cheap (couple of hundred quid tops), and given it sounds like you don't really know what you're looking at, I wouldn't buy it. You can buy perfectly good DBs for £400-500 used, and unless you have seen a bass built to ascertain its structural integrity, and played it to ensure it has a half decent tone and projection (both of which can be tweaked but only by so much), you might as well buy firewood. An instrument that's in pieces likely hasn't been played or maintained for a while, and unlike electric basses, DBs need both.

As Phil said, post some details and/or pics on here and you'll get a more informed opinion.

[DanOwens]

The soundpost is currently taped behind the fingerboard (I think). If I can't see cracks or gaps in seams, are there other structural things I should be aware of?

Dan

[Beedster]

[quote name='DanOwens' timestamp='1470215779' post='3104091']
The soundpost is currently taped behind the fingerboard (I think). If I can't see cracks or gaps in seams, are there other structural things I should be aware of?

Dan
[/quote]

The problem is Dan that, as I said above, unless the bass is built up many of the structural problems won't be apparent, lack of integrity of the surfaces around the soundpost being a good example, but other obvious issues are endpin joint, neck joint and board, body joints that look fine when not under stress but which open up once the strings are up to pitch etc etc. Bottom line is that it's a gamble, if you can afford the gamble, do it. If buying this instrument ties up your funds and means you can't buy another if this one falls to pieces, don't buy it.

[DanOwens]

Thanks, Beedster. It's an eBay listing [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112062773911?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT"]HERE[/url] and I'll go on Friday and post images in case any other BCers have opinions or a desire to purchase. It appears to be an antique dealer who probably knows nothing. I might be able to blag him into a silly £100 offer, but if it is firewood the offer might turn out to be generous!

[Beer of the Bass]

That's a plywood bass, but potentially a decent one. It might not be made in London unless it's clearly marked as such - Selmer were in the import business and many similar looking basses came from Germany. I'd have a look in through the f-holes to check that the end blocks aren't cracked and the bass bar isn't coming detached, as those would be expensive repairs.
Even if it's all healthy you could easily spend as much again (or perhaps a bit more) getting it set up and playable though, which is something to bear in mind.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Beer of the Bass

[Beedster]

Ha ha, check the seller's username!

Dan, personally I would take a chance but at no more than £200, and that's assuming that when you see it there are no surprises. The neck looks very thin, and the lack of photos of the top end of the board, perhaps an oversight, is something to keep in mind.

Good luck and keep us posted. A DB project is a wonderful thing!
C

[Beedster]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1470225359' post='3104215']
That's a plywood bass, but potentially a decent one. It might not be made in London unless it's clearly marked as such - Selmer were in the import business and many similar looking basses came from Germany. I'd have a look in through the f-holes to check that the end blocks aren't cracked and the bass bar isn't coming detached, as those would be expensive repairs.
Even if it's all healthy you could easily spend as much again (or perhaps a bit more) getting it set up and playable though, which is something to bear in mind.
[/quote]

Agree with all of that also

[DanOwens]

Thanks everyone. My other bass is with Sam Wells at the moment and I'm paying £350ish for half of the repairs that this one needs. I'll attend, have a look and see how it goes. BeeroftheBass how did you know it was plywood?

[Beedster]

[quote name='DanOwens' timestamp='1470227183' post='3104240']
Thanks everyone. My other bass is with Sam Wells at the moment and I'm paying £350ish for half of the repairs that this one needs. I'll attend, have a look and see how it goes. BeeroftheBass how did you know it was plywood?
[/quote]

Ha ha, it's quite literally shouting I'M PLYWOOD in the pictures

Having said that, someone's going to be along in a minute saying it's fully carved.....

[philparker]

[quote name='philparker' timestamp='1470209267' post='3104031']I can't describe how to check the difference between ply and solid wood, perhaps someone else will offer words of wisdom?
[/quote]

Whilst I can't describe it in words - I can see it in most instances and that screams plywood!

My own opinion, now I've seen the photos, I wouldn't take the gamble; even at £100, you will probably need to spend another £400 on strings, bridge, bit & pieces and set up and then pray that it sounds well and plays well. It certainly isn't worth £300.

[stingrayPete1977]

I agree with the others, it must be ply if it's got a join down the back and front surely anyway?

The place that just did me a new sound post would be into hundreds to refit the post,supply and fit a bridge and even a cheap set of strings is what £80?

£150 maximum for me, if you can get it playing for £350 and it turns out nice then it 'could' be a bargain, if you hit one single problem you'll do well to break even imo.

[Thunderbird]

Run away Run away

[DanOwens]

Thanks so much for such thorough advice from everyone (even you Thunderbird!!). I might not even pop over on Friday now, it seems the fuel might not be worth it.

[Beedster]

[quote name='DanOwens' timestamp='1470259059' post='3104628']
Thanks so much for such thorough advice from everyone (even you Thunderbird!!). I might not even pop over on Friday now, it seems the fuel might not be worth it.
[/quote]

Having now looked at the photos on a decent screen, that might be the best bet Dan

[Thunderbird]

[quote name='DanOwens' timestamp='1470259059' post='3104628']
Thanks so much for such thorough advice from everyone (even you Thunderbird!!). I might not even pop over on Friday now, it seems the fuel might not be worth it.
[/quote] Your welcome seriously though it was the best advice I could give I bet to buy and sort that out you would not get much change from a grand

[DanOwens]

I have a nice Czech upright... fully carved but in such a horrible state. I'm on the lookout for either a replacement or something more refined. In wanting to buy second-hand I suppose I'm considering all options, but I can't afford to spend money on a gamble really.

Ta!

[TheRev]

That looks a lot like my Musima (East German factory) bass. They're solid workhorse basses -mine does 80 gigs a year.
As the bass isn't strung up and you can't check for cracks or faults before you buy, then you are taking a bit of a gamble. On the other hand, if the bass is solid (the Musima basses are built like brick sh*t houses) then £400 spent on a bridge and setup will get you a very decent bass for jazz/folk/rockabilly. I paid £550 for mine and spent another £350 on a set up and am very happy with it.

[Beedster]

[quote name='DanOwens' timestamp='1470262818' post='3104674']
I have a nice Czech upright... fully carved but in such a horrible state. I'm on the lookout for either a replacement or something more refined. In wanting to buy second-hand I suppose I'm considering all options, but I can't afford to spend money on a gamble really.

Ta!
[/quote]

I spent months looking for either a decent complete 4/4 or a 4/4 project and got fed up with seeing total crap being peddled as 'vintage' or 'retro'. Most of the 'vintage' instruments were in fact absolute bottom of the pile quality-wise that came largely from schools, who no longer need DBs and don't have the space to keep them, and which therefore find their way to the type of ebay/private seller who sees a profit in every opportunity (there's a few sellers out there who appear to have hundreds of the things but only sell them one at a time perhaps trying to give the impression that the instrument in question has been 'played by me for many years' etc).

I gave up and bought one of these [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311553447960?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT."]http://www.ebay.co.u...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT.[/url] It's huge and a lovely piece of wood. I'm going to do the finish myself (I'm having some very light oil custom made by a luthier), the bridge and nut are currently being cut to my spec. It's going to be, I hope, rather loud

Edited August 4, 2016 by Beedster

[Beedster]

And if you really want a project http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-Bass-Upright-Bass-/322215251580?hash=item4b05868e7c:g:0nsAAOSwdzVXoJwr

[TheRev]

Also, looks like it's had a new fingerboard fitted, so it may well have had some restoration work done already?
TBH, you'll need to see it to look for any obvious defects and if you're not confident about spotting problems then it's probably not worth the gamble.

[JoeEvans]

It's plywood and needs a lot of work... Solid wood will show a straight, vertical grain on front and back, and straight grain running across the ribs. Typically a carved bass will be pine on the front with growth rings (grain) between maybe 1mm and 5mm wide. Maple back and ribs will show a bit of 'flame' pattern and a very close, barely visible vertical grain.

Plywood will show a wavering grain pattern without distinct parallel grain lines, because it's rotary cut from the log like a giant pencil sharpener.

This one is solid wood - compare the grain on the front to the one originally posted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Double-Bass-/322215269300?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Edited August 4, 2016 by JoeEvans

[SubsonicSimpleton]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1470291533' post='3104735']
And if you really want a project [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-Bass-Upright-Bass-/322215251580?hash=item4b05868e7c:g:0nsAAOSwdzVXoJwr"]http://www.ebay.co.u...nsAAOSwdzVXoJwr[/url]
[/quote]
500 quid for an abused G4M ply that probably cost less than 400 quid new