Has anyone ever.......

[Guest MoJo]

...used a five string tuned to concert pitch in a band that is tuned down half a step?
My covers band, mainly to help the vocalist, play a few numbers (mostly ACDC) half a step down, but the rest is in concert pitch. This means taking two basses and swapping between songs. I'd given thought to taking my fiver (tuned to concert pitch) and transposing the songs down a semitone. Has anyone else done this or is it too taxing to retrain the brain into unlearn and relearn a song you've been playing for ages in another position?

[Rich]

At one time my two bands were both doing 'I Wish'. One in E, the other in Eb. That made for some, errm, interesting times 😄😄 I did them both on my standard tuned fiver. I'm no virtuoso, so if I can do it, you can.

[Mykesbass]

I know I have been surprised how difficult I have found pushing a couple of songs up one - A to Bb to accommodate a sax player, but we've only run through them a couple of times. Do you find you do a lot of the songs through muscle memory? I'm sure I do which is part of the problem.

[leftybassman392]

In answer to the OP, no, but I do remember once attending a gig by a local band in Newcastle-on-Tyne at which the provided piano had been tuned a full tone flat. (No, I don't understand why either. )

The pianist, undeterred, played the entire gig as per the dots. Actually it was quite an achievement in it's own way.

Edited August 4, 2016 by leftybassman392

[Muppet]

We did this for a while. Ended up playing everything down half a step rather than just some songs. Makes for less mucking around for all guitars.

[ivansc]

aging vocal cords will do that to you.
I ended up changing a lot of keys as my pipes wore out. Easier than detuning.
House of the rising sun is if anything easier iN E than A!
(not that I play it any more....)

[BassTractor]

If it's only AC/DC you're talking about, there are good, cheap step-down transformers for that!




Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[SpondonBassed]

I had two recorded versions of Marley's "Sheriff" along with an Eric Clapton recording.

Two versions were in G and one in F#. I found it fun to play along to each of them. I noticed however that the F# version appeared to be detuned by the way it had been recorded. The pitch had been slowed down possibly due to the recording medium running faster than it should have. We're talking about pre digital, SMPTE time codes and pitch correction of course.

When I was offered a place in a band I was given some new songs to learn. I learned some songs off of the set from yooboob clips. First I learned them in their recorded keys. Then with some of them, I re-learned them in the key that favoured the vocalist's range. I feel it was a worthwhile exercise as it helped me to understand the dynamics of the songs a bit better.

Hope this helps.

[BigRedX]

When I joined a covers band they were doing several Thin Lizzy songs, and the band neglected to tell me that they played them a semitone up to avoid having to retune. I learnt them all by ear from the CDs which meant that the next rehearsal was "interesting". TBH I didn't find any of the songs particularly taxing in it's original recorded pitch on a 5-string bass tuned to standard and at least one of them was actually slightly easier compared with playing it a semitone up.

[cheddatom]

If you're not using any open strings it shouldn't make any difference. So, I guess re-learn the tunes without using any open strings, then it's just a case of "moving the shape" if you know what I mean?

[Graham]

You could do the Eb songs on a four string in drop D. I used to do that for Sweet Child Of Mine and Basket Case as I realised the only note I was missing in standard tuning was the low Eb.

It takes a bit of mental re-jigging to do that, but probably easier to do it for just those songs than for the entire set on a flat five string.

[Painy]

We already play everything tuned down half a step but there's one song we've just added to the set that we're playing tuned down a whole tone. Unfortunately nobody bothered to mention to the humble bass player that we were so I've been taking an extra bass to gigs tuned for that song rather than relearn it.
Bit of a pain though so I'm looking at getting a cheap pitch shifter pedal just to use for that song.

I should point out though that I'm inherently lazy.

[martthebass]

I tend to find that if I'm playing the same songs in differnt bands in differnt tunings then I spend more time looking at the fretboard than I'd like. My muscle memory doesn't likey!

[Muzz]

Our singist has an entirely arbitrary approach to whether he's gonna do a song in the original half step flat or not, so I end up playing a good half dozen songs in one or the other, depending. None of them are exactly Rhythm Stick, so it's pretty easy to transpose on the fly. The main challenge is finding out on the gig which one he's gonna launch into.

To quote the wonderful Victoria Wood in the persona of Stacey Leann Page, cruise liner singer extraordinaire "My accompanist is wonderful: I can start a song in any key, and eventually he'll, you know, hunt me down..."

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1470293702' post='3104754']
If it's only AC/DC you're talking about, there are good, cheap step-down transformers for that!




Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[/quote]

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1470299714' post='3104820']
You could do the Eb songs on a four string in drop D. I used to do that for Sweet Child Of Mine and Basket Case as I realised the only note I was missing in standard tuning was the low Eb.

It takes a bit of mental re-jigging to do that, but probably easier to do it for just those songs than for the entire set on a flat five string.
[/quote]

Yup, hipshot on the E string for me too, instant swap and ready for 'Sweet Child' or 'Fool for your Lovin'...Ofc I actually learnt the songs that way rather than on my 5iver.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Oopsdabassist

[Graham]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1470308593' post='3104925']


Yup, hipshot on the E string for me too, instant swap and ready for 'Sweet Child' or 'Fool for your Lovin'...Ofc I actually learnt the songs that way rather than on my 5iver.
[/quote]

Oh yeah, I had to learn the songs three times:

First on my spare bass tuned down a semi-tone a la the original recording

Next drop D as above, so I could use one bass all night.

Then I bought a five string, so re-learned them again

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1470309130' post='3104932']
Oh yeah, I had to learn the songs three times:

First on my spare bass tuned down a semi-tone a la the original recording

Next drop D as above, so I could use one bass all night.

Then I bought a five string, so re-learned them again
[/quote]

[bassjim]

i learnt stevie wonders do i do playing along to the record.This was long before the youtube army turned up to show us all how. I down tuned the E to an Eb (4 string bass obvs) but the A,D,G in standard tuning. Absolute bitch to learn. Got it sorted but couldnt get it exactly on the money.Then I sussed out Nathen Watts (i think it was him) tuned a half step down on the recording which makes this already challenging to play not half as much.

So..... if all the tunes you play are a half step down, a 4 string is a lot easier (i find it to be) to get around on without the need for a 5. If you dont have any other bands or projects you do on a regular basis, get the bass action, intonation ect set up to compensate for floppy strings.

Its also good practice to learn the same tunes in a standard tuning but a semi tone down. Helps if you find you need to change a key for a singer in the future . Win Win?

Edited August 4, 2016 by bassjim

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1470319576' post='3105086']
i learnt stevie wonders do i do playing along to the record.This was long before the youtube army turned up to show us all how. I down tuned the E to an Eb (4 string bass obvs) but the A,D,G in standard tuning. Absolute bitch to learn. Got it sorted but couldnt get it exactly on the money.Then I sussed out Nathen Watts (i think it was him) tuned a half step down on the recording which makes this already challenging to play not half as much.

So..... if all the tunes you play are a half step down, a 4 string is a lot easier (i find it to be) to get around on without the need for a 5. If you dont have any other bands or projects you do on a regular basis, get the bass action, intonation ect set up to compensate for floppy strings.

Its also good practice to learn the same tunes in a standard tuning but a semi tone down. Helps if you find you need to change a key for a singer in the future . Win Win?
[/quote]

Two thirds of the set is in concert pitch, the other third, half a step down. We used to play everything half a step down and my four stringer was set up tuned to Eb. The band think that a lot of the songs sound better in concert pitch, but the DC and Lizzy stuff sounds better half a step down. The choices are two differently tuned basses, retune between songs (I've been doing this at rehearsals and can retune quicker than the guitarists can change their guitars) or try the five string option

[Vinny]

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1470324692' post='3105162']
Two thirds of the set is in concert pitch, the other third, half a step down. We used to play everything half a step down and my four stringer was set up tuned to Eb. The band think that a lot of the songs sound better in concert pitch, but the DC and Lizzy stuff sounds better half a step down. The choices are two differently tuned basses, retune between songs (I've been doing this at rehearsals and can retune quicker than the guitarists can change their guitars) or try the five string option
[/quote]

This was pretty much why I took up 5 string in the first place, and rarely pick up a 4 now. If I tried to play a downtuned song on a 4 string now, I'd probably have a fit!

[Len_derby]

The originals band I play in do songs in various tunings so I found sticking to a 5 string bass in concert tuning suited me best.
Plus, if you're trying to build up a flow and momentum in a set I think swapping instruments and/or retuning is best avoided.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1470319576' post='3105086']
i learnt stevie wonders do i do playing along to the record.This was long before the youtube army turned up to show us all how. I down tuned the E to an Eb (4 string bass obvs) but the A,D,G in standard tuning. Absolute bitch to learn. Got it sorted but couldnt get it exactly on the money.Then I sussed out Nathen Watts (i think it was him) tuned a half step down on the recording which makes this already challenging to play not half as much.
[/quote]

I've seen an interview where Nate Watts says that from way back he detunes his guitars by a semitone. He runs a high action to suit the additional slackness and likes it for the sound. More growl, I think he said. It's a sound that I felt to my core when as a child Songs in the Key of Life was released.

[tauzero]

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1470291064' post='3104728']
...used a five string tuned to concert pitch in a band that is tuned down half a step?
[/quote]

Yes, regularly. The guitarist in one band had two guitars, one tuned standard and the other a semitone flat, and would swap between them. We did consistently do songs with one or the other, though, rather than him switching on a whim.

I've played Dakota in three different keys now, Eb, E, and F. I'm depping for an old band in a couple of weeks and I can't remember which they do it in. Not that it really matters, put my fingers in the correct starting position, click Go, and go to sleep.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1470387105' post='3105613']
Not that it really matters, put my fingers in the correct starting position, click Go, and go to sleep.
[/quote]

Heeheehee. I like your style.