Why So Few Bass Amp Sim Pedals?

[mark76]

A friend suggests it's because all bass amps are bland characterless rubbish. Is that the reason or is it (a) lack of demand or ( technical challenges.

Edited August 7, 2016 by mark76

[GazWills]

There are loads aren't there? Pedals exist for ampegs, traynors, pearce, GK and Eden for starters, and I bet there are more I don't know about...

[mark76]

Am I searching under the wrong terms then? Because all I can find is that Zoom thing.

Are they not called amp simulators when bass is involved?

[PaulWarning]

I've always wondered, aren't amp sims just EQ pedals with presets?

[NancyJohnson]

I'd concur with the friend of the original poster, certainly there's loads amps that do sound the similar, the nuances are quite minor and I'm pretty certain in a blindfold test people wouldn't really be able to tell one from another. Over the years I'd used Trace, Laney, Tech21, Ashdown etc and in truth it's always been a case of dialling in a desired tone and leaving it at that.

Insofar as emulation goes, I used to really like the much derided kidney shaped Bass POD - I think there was a rack version too; there was a lot of great sounds on it, but I'm genuinely unsure as to whether the sounds it made correctly emulated the amplifier/speaker combinations it claimed to or if it was all advertising rhetoric. It was a very handy tool live and in the studio.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1470646165' post='3107234']
I've always wondered, aren't amp sims just EQ pedals with presets?
[/quote]

The main job of an amp sim is to simulate the distotion/drive characteristics of an amp. But its probably true that many bass amps don't differ by much other than the baked in QE so this is probably why there isnt a big market for bass amp sims compared with the guitar market where the nuances of distortion dominate the tone due to common use of medium and high gain levels. Then theres the fact that behringer make a pedal that costs £25 quid that covers probably 90% of what a bass players would generally want and amp sim to do i.e. provide a bit of smooth overdrive for lowish gain sounds.

Edited August 8, 2016 by bassman7755

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1470658364' post='3107371']
The main job of an amp sim is to simulate the distotion/drive characteristics of an amp. But its probably true that many bass amps don't differ by much other than the baked in QE so this is probably why there isnt a big market for bass amp sims compared with the guitar market where the nuances of distortion dominate the tone due to common use of medium and high gain levels. Then theres the fact that behringer make a pedal that costs £25 quid that covers probably 90% of what a bass players would generally want and amp sim to do i.e. provide a bit of smooth overdrive for lowish gain sounds.
[/quote]this is true, I've a BDI 21 and it does the distortion job, although is suddenly goes all spikey at about 3 o clock, I prefer a Zoom B1 on, it does a similar distortion job and has a lot more EQ capabilities (amp sims as well) and you can also have different patches for different songs

[fretmeister]

I've used bass amp modellers for years.

Mostly Line 6 stuff, but also Tech 21

I'm using a Helix now and the bass models in it are all very different.

There's SVT normal channel, SVT Bright, Mesa 400+, a GK model, B15 model and other stuff too. And the best bit about modern modellers with powerful EQ is that all amp models (even the guitar ones) can be used properly on bass. In parallel signal paths if I fancy it too.

[stingrayPete1977]

I've only ever recorded an actual bass amp once in a studio, I liked the kidney POD too.

[JPJ]

My experience of amp sims is limited to the Line6 Lowdown 300 combo which had a few built-in sims. Frankly, I'm a 'dial in my tone, set and forget' guy who doesn't use effects so it was wasted on me. That said, I didn't find any of the sims 'convincing'.

[dannybuoy]

Here's a few to look into:

Tech 21 VT Bass / Sansamp Bass Driver
Aguilar Tonehammer
Two Notes Le Bass / Torpedo CAB
Ampeg SCR-DI
EBS Microbass
GK Plex
DSM OmniCabSim
Line 6 Bass Pod / Bass Pod XT / X3 / HD
Zoom B1on / B1xon / B3 / MS-60B
Digitech multis


I recommend the Tonehammer for a creamy vintage sound (perfection with a P + flats), the Le Bass for modern grind (Jazz + rounds, mmm), and the VT Bass which can cover the lot (especially if you get the DI or Fly Rig with the new bite control).

All of which happen to be analog, not that I've anything against digital. I haven't tried the PODs, but have not been impressed with Zoom's offerings. There are some great amp sims on iOS, the ones in Tonestack and the free ones in Garageband sound particularly good.

Edited August 10, 2016 by dannybuoy

[adamg67]

There are digital amps as well, just an "amp sim pedal" and power amp together. I use a Markbass Multiamp and all 12 amp sims are top quality. There's the Kemper amp thing as well

With the DSP tech and software available now, it is definitely possible to emulate any amp perfectly, it's just a question of price. In 10 years time you'll have perfect amp sims on our phones (or whatever's replaced them) - we're not that far off now, I don't have a guitar amp, just amplitube.

In the end, if a digital rig outputs the same numbers as an analogue rig, it sounds *exactly* the same.

[bagsieblue]

Zoom B9 has a lot of amp sims built in - and easily tweak able too boot.

The very best amp sims I've come across (admittedly not in a pedal) is the Peavey Bam 210 Head or Combo.

[luckydog]

Roland have models of most of the classic amps built into some of their cubes, and these are good and credible enough when real classic amps/cabs aren't avail IME. Passable mic'd or DI'd and portable.

LD

[MacDaddy]

I use a DigiTech BP355 and cannot recommend it highly enough.
Plenty of bass amp sims, or just use it as a multi fx pedal.
It has drums and a looper, and even some amp sims for guitarists.
All for under a ton. Full details here:

http://digitech.com/en/products/bp355

[Beer of the Bass]

I did a gig last week where the house amp was some sort of Roland Cube. The venue was on a pedestrianised street, so I went with that rather than my own amp. On that brief encounter, I wasn't much impressed with the modelling on it. Vintage valve amps are generally a thing that I like, but each setting on this thing just sounded like the same small combo with differing amounts of treble rolled off. I found the most useable sound on the "flat" setting. Perhaps that wasn't the best example to judge the modelling concept by.
It strikes me that amp simulations would only be useful in a live setting if you have a rig that's powerful enough and flat enough not to impart too much of its own character, which might only be achievable at the pricier end of things.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Beer of the Bass

[luckydog]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1471171745' post='3110938']
I did a gig last week where the house amp was some sort of Roland Cube. The venue was on a pedestrianised street, so I went with that rather than my own amp. On that brief encounter, I wasn't much impressed with the modelling on it. Vintage valve amps are generally a thing that I like, but each setting on this thing just sounded like the same small combo with differing amounts of treble rolled off. I found the most useable sound on the "flat" setting. Perhaps that wasn't the best example to judge the modelling concept by.
It strikes me that amp simulations would only be useful in a live setting if you have a rig that's powerful enough and flat enough not to impart too much of its own character, which might only be achievable at the pricier end of things.
[/quote]

Yes. The cube needs to be mic'd or DI'd to sound like a reasonable emulation IME - yer can't defy the laws of physics. Even then, such things are naturally a compromise vs the real thing.

Recently, we've been studio mixing a live recording. Live bass was the rig in my avatar, Pbass into Bassman: a classic sound. Recorded mic on the live bass cab wasn't usable, so left with bass DI straight from bass guitar. Emulations didn't cut it, versus what we know the real thing sounds like. So decided to route the recorded DI back through a real amp/cab and re-record. 'Cos I wasn't expecting this, I didn't have the Bassman rig with me; so we used the studio SVT & 8x10. Whilst the Ampeg rig sounded classic, it didn't sound like the Bassman at all. So I went home and got the Bassman, which sounded classic and 'correct'.

In that situation, emulation didn't cut it. And the difference between Ampeg and Fender classic rigs was profound and real. We accidentally critically compared real versus emulation Bassman and Ampeg classic rigs ! Interesting ?!

LD

[Funky Dunky]

Good thread! I was wondering about this myself recently, I have a wee Fender Bronco 40 and it has two or three really nice, workable tones but it can't hook up to an extension cab, so I was looking for a sim pedal which could provide variety of tones and still retain warmth without sounding artificial. Sure, I could upgrade my amp and likely will, but I would miss the variety of very different voices I have at the minute.

I'll need to get a go at a Zoom B3 and see if it can do a job, but it means excessive twiddling I would rather avoid. I do like the idea of being able to quickly and easily make big changes to the voice of my instrument, beyond simple tone controls and EQ.

[xgsjx]

There's also the option of using a laptop or ipad for the amp sim & fx. I'm planning on either using the macbook or ipad for gigging (if I do gig again).
I use amp sims on the mac at home.

[Norris]

My Boss GT6B multi-fx has a few amp and cab sims built in. They don't call them by their copyrighted names but it's fairly simple to work out what they are

[mmrunyan1]

Ampeg SCR-DI is fantastic!