Vintage valve heads and huge vintage cabs

[Mr. Foxen]

Dunno if this is a lucky score or an extra wardrobe. Figuring its a lot like a 18" folded horn a lá Acoustic 361. Think the 150W is wrong from the valves I can see.

Anyone know anything about these? Or feel the urge to pick it up and drive it to my practice space.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170266941211"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170266941211[/url]

Edited October 3, 2008 by Mr. Foxen

[joegarcia]

Awesome. So bloomin' jealous.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='299038' date='Oct 3 2008, 07:16 PM']Dunno if this is a lucky score or an extra wardrobe. Figuring its a lot like a 18" folded horn a lá Acoustic 361. Think the 150W is wrong from the valves I can see.

Anyone know anything about these? Or feel the urge to pick it up and drive it to my practice space.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170266941211"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170266941211[/url][/quote]
Valve amp technology hasn't had a significant change since roughly 1969, so a 30 year old amp is just as good as a new one from a technological standpoint. But speaker technology more than ten years old is dodgy, and more than 20 is a dinosaur.

[Balcro]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='299038' date='Oct 4 2008, 12:16 AM']Dunno if this is a lucky score or an extra wardrobe. Figuring its a lot like a 18" folded horn a lá Acoustic 361. Think the 150W is wrong from the valves I can see.
Anyone know anything about these? Or feel the urge to pick it up and drive it to my practice space.
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170266941211"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170266941211[/url][/quote]

Nope. Don't know anything about them. It looks like they made a few for fun and then stopped. Web-site info suggest the makers are a sound-hire company.

Their description talks about the top half of the cabinet being some sort of resonance chamber. This sounds like an old Audioquest Hi-fi idea to achieve bass extension, not the famous folded horn. It probably has a nice warm tome to it, but I suggest you turn the cab upside down and put the drive unit at the top. Looks good value though.

Good luck and enjoy.

Balcro

[Kiwi]

I think what counts is how it sounds, regardless of the technology or specifications.

[lemmywinks]

Just out of interest, is that a non-standard mains plug coming out of the back?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='299082' date='Oct 4 2008, 03:24 AM']Valve amp technology hasn't had a significant change since roughly 1969, so a 30 year old amp is just as good as a new one from a technological standpoint. But speaker technology more than ten years old is dodgy, and more than 20 is a dinosaur.[/quote]

+1 - in fact, a 30 year old valve amp may in some ways be better than a new one. Assuming it's true point to point or turret board, it'll be easier to service than many modern examples, where half the components are crammed onto a PCB, including the pots and suspect things like plastic valve socket bases.

Probably a less compromised signal pathway too - no modern bells and whistles like effect loops to suck tone.

These unsung heroes from the late 60's , early 70's can be a real find. You're a very lucky man - top score!!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='299283' date='Oct 4 2008, 12:19 PM']Just out of interest, is that a non-standard mains plug coming out of the back?[/quote]

I'd guess its either hard wired or one of those dodge oldschool 3 pin bakelite jobs that crumble into dust when you unplug them, leaving you with a handful of wires and metal. Gonna switch that out. Got one of those 'on long term loan' heads with one that I can't switch.

[man_at_arms84]

This looks incredible! Wish I'd spotted it. Would have made a lovley adition to my rig.
Let us all know how it sounds.
Very intresting!
What did you seach to find this thing?

[man_at_arms84]

By the way, your band kicks arse. Just had a quick listen.
Where you from?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='man_at_arms84' post='302566' date='Oct 8 2008, 09:56 PM']By the way, your band kicks arse. Just had a quick listen.
Where you from?[/quote]

Cheers. Based in Bristol, but singer and drummer live in Bath, and guitarist lives in Weston-Super-Mare.

Not so sure about revealing my Ebay secrets, struggling to keep a step ahead of Joe Garcia when it comes to scoring parts of giant bass rigs.

[chris_b]

In my opinion, old bass cabs lack definition, clarity and tone. I wouldn't go back to my old Marshall or Hiwatt 4x12's if you paid me!

[Thunderhead]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='299038' date='Oct 4 2008, 12:16 AM']Dunno if this is a lucky score or an extra wardrobe. Figuring its a lot like a 18" folded horn a lá Acoustic 361. Think the 150W is wrong from the valves I can see.

Anyone know anything about these?[/quote]
I've never seen one before either, but it looks like another of the 'also ran' British valve amps from the very late 60s or early 70s, and might have been built by one of the same subcontractor companies that did one of the brands you're more familiar with (although that doesn't mean the circuitry is the same, necessarily).

150W is not out of the question from four EL34s (which is what that looks like), although it's at the upper limit. If they're run over the specification ratings, which many companies did, that sort of power is definitely reachable especially if it's quoted at a higher distortion figure than the 1% normally used for hi-fi type amps. Standard Marshall Super Lead and Super Bass amps from this period usually measure 130 to 140W at the onset of audible clipping (probably about 5 to 10% distortion if you really care!).

The mains input connector is an old in-line Bulgin type, and is illegal these days. It should be considered dangerous since it's never possible to make the cable retention effective on them, they are simply a poor design and always were. If you want to keep the socket on the amp original, you can get right-angled versions of the plug which are much safer, although still illegal - all these connectors are only rated for low voltages now. Of course you may still use it without the Police knocking on your door, but it may cause trouble if you ever want to sell it on via a shop or even to use it at some venues where Health & Safety rules are enforced. Personally I would replace it with a modern IEC pair (AKA "kettle lead"), since it's safe, legal and means that if you ever break or lose the power cable you can easily find another. This does involve a small amount of work on the chassis as an IEC socket will not quite go through the same hole, but five minutes with a file will make it so.

Old speakers and cabs do lack clarity, definition and power handling - but NOT tone! Some of them sound wonderful, IF you want that old, soft, warm, lo-fi bass sound. It's not the SAME as a modern bass sound, but if you DO want it then the new stuff won't do the job either. But be careful, because most old cabs were never really capable of taking the power of the amps even when new, and blown drivers are very common - and not all the problems show up at low volume.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Thunderhead

[Mr. Foxen]

Going to pick this up today, managed to blow up one of my 15s before last gig, so its needed. Excited.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I'd be worried about
[quote]...it also has a very slight crackle at higher volumes. On agreeing with the winning bidder i could take the cab to an amp repair man, who i know to be very good and we could just add the cost to the price.[/quote]

I hope its a simple & inexpensive repair.

[Mr. Foxen]

What'smore concerning is the fact I drove 3 hours there and found no-one at home, no-one answering calls and my amp visible through the window. Waited hour and a half, spoke to neighbour and the gran of the guy and they have no clue. Ebay disputastic.

Ah just got a stressed call from the dude saying his parents decided to have a day out instead of waiting for me like they agreed. He's bringing it over tomorrow. Glad I didn't break in, take it and sh!t in his linen cupboard now.

[steve-soar]

Ehhhh? Get your petrol money back from the numpty. How old is he? (Had to go out with mummy and daddy) and make you look like a tool? Not good.

[Mr. Foxen]

If he delivers it, I only end up short on the time hanging about, told him so, he sounded stressed. He was working today and arranged with parents to be in for me to test and collect, they let him down. I was all ready to have him sent solicitors letter and everything, totally on a slow burn rage, even if costs were a pain, would be takin one for the team vs. dodge ebay sellers, but turns out its not his fault and he is working to resolve. Not cutting him slack, but not excessively going out to destroy him (as making him pay fuel would mean it cost him to have it taken away, if it didn't already).

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

My alarm bells will be going off that he's probably had a quote for the 'minor' repair then decided to unload the amp as the repair cost exceeds the value. He wants to drop off rather than give you the chance to hear it before handing the money over.

I hope I'm wrong, but he sounds like a tit of the highest order. I reckon he's either trying it on or is genuinely stupid.

[Mr. Foxen]

We'll see tomorrow. Right now, I'm pretty sure he has an unsuitable rig for what he does, and went into selling it pretty blindly. I still have an ebay dispute open and will remain so till this amp has been used in anger.

[Mr. Foxen]

Just dropped it off. Quick quiet go on it, check noises come out, quietly as housemate is still kipping. Is indeed a folded horn like an Acoustic cab, pretty dusty inside. Guessing upgrading speaker is in order, reccomendations for an 18? The master volume is a bit odd (to me) its twelve points, clicky between them, and its mad crackly when clicking. Will get some contact cleaner in there, any other options there?

Right, housemate is up and we have rocked it. Is indeed quiet up close and loud far away. Initial knob twiddling wasn't that loud, until the sound of the kitchen being demolished became apparent.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Mr. Foxen

[nick]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='309687' date='Oct 19 2008, 10:21 AM']Guessing upgrading speaker is in order, reccomendations for an 18?[/quote]

Hi Oli, glad it's all worked out.
Why do you reckon speaker needs upgrading mate?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='nick' post='309874' date='Oct 19 2008, 03:50 PM']Hi Oli, glad it's all worked out.
Why do you reckon speaker needs upgrading mate?[/quote]

Not designed for people trying to make a low A at volume. Granted the floor upstairs is shaking when it starts protesting, but theres a lot more can be got out the amp at that point. Caricatures doesn't do subtle sound, everyone needs to keep pace with Chappell of Rest's stupid stack. Tech has moved on a bit, this speaker has clearly not been changed for a very long time. Just had the amp apart, anyone want gubbins pictures?

[Thunderhead]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='309687' date='Oct 19 2008, 10:21 AM']Guessing upgrading speaker is in order, reccomendations for an 18?[/quote]There aren't too many choices in 18s these days... Celestion only seem to do one, the FTR18-4080HDX (in the Pro Audio series), which is rated for 1000W but only has a sensitivity of 95dB - not that much, for a single-speaker amp of only 150W, even in an efficient folded horn.

Eminence also do a couple, also in the PA rather than bass guitar range, and you definitely want the 650W Sigma Pro 18A-2 - which is much more sensitive at 99db and has a much better frequency range for bass guitar - rather than the 800W and only 96/97dB Omega Pro 18A or 18C which are pretty much dedicated PA sub drivers.

[quote]The master volume is a bit odd (to me) its twelve points, clicky between them, and its mad crackly when clicking. Will get some contact cleaner in there, any other options there?[/quote]It may be the switch, but if cleaning it doesn't work it's probably one of the caps either before or after the control leaking a tiny amount of DC - this makes both pots and switches very noisy when moved.

[quote]Right, housemate is up and we have rocked it. Is indeed quiet up close and loud far away. Initial knob twiddling wasn't that loud, until the sound of the kitchen being demolished became apparent.[/quote]Folded horns are always like that! I once tested a very similar Cerwin-Vega 18" cab in a friend's garden, with a Hiwatt 200 head - standing next to the cab, we thought the amp wasn't working properly it was so quiet. Then his wife came running out of the house shouting to turn it down . I went to the far end of the garden (rather a big one, about 50 yards long) and it was LOUDER down there! MUCH louder .

Edited October 19, 2008 by Thunderhead

[Mr. Foxen]

Contact cleaner and some screwdriver wok totally osrted the master volume, some service the guy's amp tech gave, think he just put new valves and new speaker wire in the cab (seems thin and crap, dunno if that needs embiggening), then charged an arm and a leg from the clueless kid. Didn't even take amp out of case as screws were still clogged with crud.]

Found secret manufacturers plate inside, google tells me nothing:

MCB Electronics, Wareham, Dorset

Heres the rest of its insides: