Pros, wannabees and hobbyists

[odysseus]

I'm a hobbyist with a day job.

Money is all very nice, but I'm more into the music than any income from it. I've often thought that making money solely from music would be great, but then I get to thinking that having to rely on music to make money would remove much of the fun from it, and force me to play cheesy 'popular' songs in order to get the well paid gigs.

Everyone's different, but I'm happy with doing things on my terms

[dlloyd]

[quote name='grandad' timestamp='1471070558' post='3110293']
I offer the following definitions:

1. Pro = main activity and main source of income.

2. Semi-pro = engaged in the activity and paid but not relying on the activity solely to earn a living.

3. Amateur = unpaid.

4. Wanabe = someone who aspires to 1. or 2. (usually derogatory and implying ineptitude).

5. Hobbyist = activity pursued outside one's main occupation and pursued primarily for pleasure.
[/quote]

On those definitions, semi pro in that I get paid a reasonable amount of cash to play gigs a couple of times a month... feels more like a hobby though... I do it for fun and enjoy gigging enormously.

[seashell]

Since I'm over 50 and have only been playing for 5 years, I'm a hobbyist and always will be. I've never yet done a paid gig. The band I'm in at the moment only gigs about every six weeks. We pass the hat round, and we are now starting to get enough money to pay for rehearsals up to the next gig.
I count this as good progress for a hobbyist such as I! It's nice not to have to pay to rehearse :-)

[leftybassman392]

Retired now (early) so none of the above. On the whole I'm happy, but I still get occasional moments when I miss it horribly. C'est la vie.


Previously, 100% earnings from musical activities (playing, teaching, P.A. hire, project studio hire, etc.) Not as much live work as I would have liked (at least not the properly paid kind), but if I had my time over again the only thing I'd do differently would be to take more of the opportunities I was offered.

These days I don't even pick up an instrument that often (although I still enjoy it when I do and won't be getting rid any time soon). I do still nurture faint hopes of a return, but I'm not sure my prematurely geriatric back would be up to it now. Ho hum.

Edited August 13, 2016 by leftybassman392

[bottomofthebarrel]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1471070829' post='3110296']
Welcome Bottomofthebarrel. Looking forward to seeing you in the Introductions section.
[/quote]

Thanks!

There's not a whole lot to add, but why not?

[mike257]

I make my living from playing, sound teching and other live production-related things, in varying degrees depending on what's around at the time! I'd guess that makes me a pro, although that's judged more from the invoices in the bank than my playing chops for sure!

[blue]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1471069828' post='3110287']
Pro=professional. Professional being the currently accepted term for someone who earns most of their income from what they do. In ye olden times, use of the word "professional" would be reserved for Doctors, Lawyers and those who put many years of formal study towards their life career.

From what you say Blue, you are a professional musician in that music is now your full time job.

PS, can you post landscape photos of your gigs next time please? We'd see more of what it's like for you there than we do in portrait mode.
[/quote]

July 2016

Blue

Edited August 13, 2016 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1471081744' post='3110382']
Call it what you like, that's your prerogative, even if you're mistaken. I'm pleased you're happy playing music as a job - it's always a big plus to love the job you have to do to pay the bills, which is what I meant by 'obligation'. I'm fortunate that I no longer have that obligation because I'm retired and no longer obliged to work at anything to pay my bills. That's why I say I play and gig purely for the love of doing so, because what other reason do I have?
[/quote]

Understood, i get a little testy of any hint of the notion that if your playing for money, you can't love what your doing.

Toodle Pip

Blue

[ambient]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1471042398' post='3110252']
Surely 'professional' means earning a living solely from playing music?

Not sure about 'semi pro' - someone who earns some money from playing music? Though I'd suggest it would have to be a significant proportion of overall income rather than just 'beer money'.

I'm in neither camp so I guess that makes me a hobbyist, but I'm fortunate to be able to play and gig purely out of love of doing so, which means I'm not obliged to gig or play anything I don't want to in order to pay the bills.
[/quote]

Teaching, writing (music journalism), composing, arranging. It's all still music.

[4stringslow]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471093729' post='3110486']
Understood, i get a little testy of any hint of the notion that if your playing for money, you can't love what your doing.

Toodle Pip

Blue
[/quote]

No problem. Of course it's possible to love your job, whatever it is, but I reckon the best indicator of what people really love doing is how they choose to spend their time when they have no reason to work at anything. I've always loved playing music but I've always loved the idea of becoming financially independent even more. I've also always known that my musical ability would never enable me to achieve that so I tried something else that would and aimed to retire at 40. I failed dismally at that, though I did manage it a shade before my 50th

Did I love my career job? Well, I had a great time with lots of interesting challenges and travelled the world on expenses, but I guess it failed the 'love' test because I chose to give it up as soon as I could afford it. The disappointing thing is that I can no longer use 'pressure of time' as an excuse for why my playing hasn't improved much over the years

[4stringslow]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471094734' post='3110493']
Teaching, writing (music journalism), composing, arranging. It's all still music.
[/quote]

Fair point

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471092937' post='3110479']
July 2016
Attached Thumbnails
Blue
[/quote]

I like the monitoring system. In certain parts of London that might be known as "showing a bit of wedge". Was that a festival gig? Doesn't look like any pub gig that I've been to.

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471056003' post='3110273']
I'm calling "malarkey" on this one.

I disagree.

[b]This sounds like the old, "I have a traditional job, I play what I like when I want" so I'm a little better than those that play for a living.[/b]

Sound more like a wannabe IMO.

I love every gig I play. However I don't play for love, I play for money. I also play music that I love. I don't find myself playing music I don't like.

Personally, I love the fact that I'm obligated to play in order to pay my bills.And what a cool way to pay bills, playing electric bass guitar and singing in a rock band. What you call an obligation for some of thef us is "Living The Dream". I would hope there are others that share my perspective.

Blue
[/quote]

But it may be true... from a playing point of view. The playing skills might be very high.

Edited August 13, 2016 by JTUK

[Paul S]

Hobbyist. This year I will probably end up doing around 20 paid gigs but that only breaks even with the cost of rehearsals and petrol money. However I can't think of many hobbies where you enjoy yourself so much and break even at the end of the year so consider myself very lucky!

[Rich]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471056003' post='3110273']
This sounds like the old, "I have a traditional job, I play what I like when I want" so I'm a little better than those that play for a living.
[/quote]
This would be a "the old" that exists purely in your imagination then, because never in all my years here have I seen anyone even [i]suggest[/i] that playing as a hobbyist/semipro/part-timer makes them better than a pro.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1471101399' post='3110555']
This would be a "the old" that exists purely in your imagination then, because never in all my years here have I seen anyone even [i]suggest[/i] that playing as a hobbyist/semipro/part-timer makes them better than a pro.
[/quote]

Never? I'm astonished that former member Inti has passed so swiftly from the public consciousness. IIRC, he boiled the concept of playing for money rather than artistic or personal satisfaction down to the noun 'clownwhore', a term which enjoyed brief popularity as a forum meme.

And while the money vs satisfaction / covers vs originals furore lies very much in the forum's distant past I recall a number of people who (if not as aggressively as Inti then at least by subtle implication) suggested at the time that they occupied a musically higher moral plane by virtue of their rejection of shallow remuneration.

As a forum, we are past that troubled stage only because many of us openly rejected the concept of Art vs Money as sheer idiocy and saw the silly buggers off, yes, we did.

Edited August 13, 2016 by skankdelvar

[stingrayPete1977]

Careful skank, it takes dad ages to type that long post about the village fete and his radishes need watering!

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1471104766' post='3110578']
Careful skank, it takes dad ages to type that long post about the village fete and his radishes need watering!
[/quote]


[size=3][b]Raphanus sativus:[/b] Over-rated, tetchy[/size]


The radish is a temperamental little Brassica with - in my opinion - very little going on in the taste department. In terms of effort vs return the radish is far surpassed by the asparagus, the globe artichoke or even the humble courgette.

Perhaps it's different in France.

'[i]Que ces radis sont savoureux! Zut alors, sacre bleue, nom d'un nom nom nom![/i]'

[Rich]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1471104388' post='3110574']
Never? I'm astonished that former member Inti has passed so swiftly from the public consciousness. IIRC, he boiled the concept of playing for money rather than artistic or personal satisfaction down to the noun 'clownwhore', a term which enjoyed brief popularity as a forum meme.
[/quote]
Yeah, but nothing he ever said was worth reading anyway

[blue]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1471095972' post='3110509']


I like the monitoring system. In certain parts of London that might be known as "showing a bit of wedge". Was that a festival gig? Doesn't look like any pub gig that I've been to.
[/quote]

We're a bar band, but the term is misleading. It doesn't mean you play bars exclusively. We play a lot of fairs and festivals in the summer.

Bar Band has more to do with the genre of music you play.

The Stones are a good example if a bar band.

Blue

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471118264' post='3110696']
We're a bar band, but the term is misleading. It doesn't mean you play bars exclusively. We play a lot of fairs and festivals in the summer.

Bar Band has more to do with the genre of music you play.

The Stones are a good example if a bar band.
[/quote]

Ah! It's all beginning to make sense now. The term 'Bar Band' might describe a band playing in a bar but - unlike 'pub band' - also extends to a specific genre. Would I be right in thinking that 'Bar Band' material would be a sort of mix of blues and rock, some covers, some originals?

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1471114681' post='3110667']
Yeah, but nothing he ever said was worth reading anyway
[/quote]

May the Lord have mercy on your soul! Inti was a complete hoot; I laughed till I cried at his posts.

In fact, we should have kept him around for another week or two, just for the fun of it. Never known a chap sound so much as if his head were about to explode.

Edited August 13, 2016 by skankdelvar

[blue]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1471101399' post='3110555']

This would be a "the old" that exists purely in your imagination then, because never in all my years here have I seen anyone even [i]suggest[/i] that playing as a hobbyist/semipro/part-timer makes them better than a pro.
[/quote]

No it doesn't, so I agree with your point.

My point, was referencing the guys that will go on about their traditional job and because of it they don't care about money they make from playing.

That's a little "snooty", in my book.

Blue

[grandad]

The catagories, pro, seml-pro and hobbyist do not describe skill level. They may imply it in common usage. Neither do they provide a measure of zeal or passion for our art.

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471148412' post='3110785']
No it doesn't, so I agree with your point.

My point, was referencing the guys that will go on about their traditional job and because of it they don't care about money they make from playing.

That's a little "snooty", in my book.

Blue
[/quote]

But.... it is true, if you don't 'need' to take gigs because you have alternative means, you don't care about the money so much..you'd probably pick a good gig and dump the 'other' gigs. After playing for more than a while, you might get fed up with gigs that just aren't worth the hassle...from your perspective/thinking.

[4stringslow]

Exactly. It's not a 'snooty thing it's just a fact.

Imagine that money was no object, for whatever reason. Would that change the choices of gigs or music played?