Pros, wannabees and hobbyists

[Grangur]

It's too late for me to be a wannabe Pro, so I'll settle for being a wannabe Hobbyist.

I'm certainly a wannabe bass player.

[4stringslow]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1471284727' post='3111859']
Have you seen all the gear ebs_freak owns?!
[/quote]

Not unique to music though. I know a couple of keen amateur photographers with camera gear that's probably cost each of them well over £10k. One has a single lens that cost almost £4k. They don't seem to think they have a divine right to be paid for each photo they take, they just love photography and are prepared to pursue it whatever the cost to them.

I guess much the same thing applies to people who love sailing or diving or flying or caravanning or [insert other pastimes here].

[operative451]

Hobbyist using noise and piss-taking as treatment for psychological disorders,i guess?

Spent most of the 90s playing guitar in a goth band, sort of Evanescence mixed with the White Stripes, failed miserably for a number of reasons including an agrophobic singer/songwriter who wrote great 'doom and woe' songs but wouldn't actually go and play them at people! If the internet had been around then, we might have got away with that, but hey...

I guess pro=most/all of your income from music, the hobbyist = most/all of your income [i]on [/i]music? Hell, i'm okay with that...

[zbd1960]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1471284847' post='3111861']
Yet a quartet for a wedding will cost a fortune, maybe if you book the entire orchestra it will be free?
[/quote]
Errrm, sorry to disappoint, no. Last concert I organised required a 50 piece small symphony orchestra and cost £8k.

I organised and played in a small string group for a friend's brthday party some years ago. There were six of us - it took months of planning and 5 or 6 three-hour rehearsals to pull it together (none of us had played publicly in a string group before). The music was expensive too at around £30 or more for a basic set of parts of some simple string arrangements. We needed several sets of stuff. Most of the rehearsals were at my house, so most people travelled 50 miles round trip per rehearsal, 6 rehearsals is 300 miles, x 5 plus about £100 on music.

[gjones]

I play with pro musicians and do pro level gigs but have to have a day job to keep my head above water. The fully pro musicians I know manage to scratch a living but only just. Most are guitarists/vocalists and make the majority of their money doing solo gigs. Some also teach. A band gig is a luxury for them, as although a band will get a bigger fee, it has to be split 4/5 ways.

[tauzero]

[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1471292490' post='3111949']
I guess pro=most/all of your income from music, the hobbyist = most/all of your income [i]on [/i]music? Hell, i'm okay with that...
[/quote]

Possibly the tipover point between semi-pro and hobbyist is when musical income fails to match musical expenditure. Mr Micawber knew this. [color=#252525][font=sans-serif]"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result semi-pro. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result hobbyist."[/font][/color]

[4stringslow]

I quite like that definition. Semi-pro = covering all music related costs but no more.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm not do sure, I could sell three basses and two amps then only buy strings, batteries and running repairs each year leaving me in a healthy profit, I don't need to as I have another income, I still feel like a hobbyist even after a good run of gigs.

[lowhand_mike]

just a hobbyist getting beer money occasionally from gigs. would love to gig more but real life tends to see to it that we dont book as much as we would like or rehearse as much as we should. I dont get get any time to practice at home unless on the very odd occasion i get left at home on my own and the wife and kids go out and i squeeze in learning a new song or two.

[JTUK]

If you play with good standard pros..you could probably be considered 'pro' yourself.

But then again, the 3 piece that only do one thing for a living may not be a good standard so it means not a lot.

Depends who is asking...

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1471366442' post='3112553']
Depends who is asking...
[/quote]

HMRC would probably want to know.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1471300505' post='3112037']
I play with pro musicians and do pro level gigs but have to have a day job to keep my head above water. The fully pro musicians I know manage to scratch a living but only just. Most are guitarists/vocalists and make the majority of their money doing solo gigs. Some also teach. A band gig is a luxury for them, as although a band will get a bigger fee, it has to be split 4/5 ways.
[/quote]

Cocktail music (it's a generic term and covers quite a wide range of situations) can be a good income stream. I did it as a guitarist but a talented young keyboard player I used to know was making a fairly decent living from it too. In truth it is pretty dull but if you're any good it pays pretty well (I was getting ballpark £125/hour), minimal gear so you're portable, and best of all you don't have to share it with anybody. On the down side you usually need to sit down AND use a music stand.

I think a lot of pro musicians teach, even if they don't strictly need to. I used to know quite a lot of people who did it in the local County Music Service. Attitudes to what they do were typically different from yer average Basschatter too. It was a job like any other, often with predetermined work conditions and pay rates. You turn up, play the notes in front of you and go home afterwards (maybe stopping off for a beer on the way). End of evening. I was quite friendly with a Woodwind player who did exactly this despite having had numerous prestige residencies at places like the London Palladium. To him it was just a job. His main passion was skiing IIRC, and he would spend the entire summer holiday period on a ski slope somewhere working as an instructor for a lot less money than he got as a muso. In my book this man and others like him were the ultimate professionals.

[JTUK]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1471448318' post='3113131']
HMRC would probably want to know.
[/quote]

They will... but there is pro and pro, IMO so that is why it depends where the question comes from.
I know plenty of people doing nothing but music but are a million miles away..

[BottomE]

Maybe having to pay tax is the measure of a pro player - or a rubbish accountant...

I have to pay tax on musical income and work with many pros but don't think of myself in terms of pro or semi pro. Neither do the guys i play with.

[DaytonaRik]

A serious hobbyist? Someone who may not take home a fortune after each gig but treats it as if it were his livelihood so professional, prepared, well equipped, well rehearsed and having fun!

[Kitsto]

I feel very fortunate because I've recently retired and that has given me the time and drive to take up the bass seriously and get into a gigging 70s rock covers band. The two good things about doing this at the 'wrong' end of my life are that (1) there's no possibility or wish to do this for real, as there would have been in my 20s and (2) all of that useless knowledge gleaned from studying the small print of inner sleeves back then (which was far greater than anything I did for A levels) is suddenly useful when I say to the younger members of the band (they are all younger) "Do you mean the album version or the single?" etc, etc.

[Dood]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1471366442' post='3112553']


Depends who is asking...
[/quote]
[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1471448318' post='3113131']
HMRC would probably want to know.
[/quote]

In some slightly perverse way, I actually like submitting my yearly accounts to my accountant. I might not earn as much as I did in high-level IT, but when you know your guitar earned every penny that paid all of the bills, fed and watered your family and kept a roof over your head... I feel very, very lucky to be able to call this my career. I hope I can do it for a long time.

[blue]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1471813432' post='3116128']



In some slightly perverse way, I actually like submitting my yearly accounts to my accountant. I might not earn as much as I did in high-level IT, but when you know your guitar earned every penny that paid all of the bills, fed and watered your family and kept a roof over your head... I feel very, very lucky to be able to call this my career. I hope I can do it for a long time.
[/quote]

I feel the same. I make a small fraction if what I made when I was doing my traditional 9-5 insurance analyst job.

Now I just love it when someone asks me what I do for a living and I say;


"I play electric bass guitar and sing in a rock and roll band"

Especially when it's some bloke who's intention was to "one up" you with his awesome day job.

Blue

Edited August 21, 2016 by blue

[gjones]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471818193' post='3116180']
I feel the same. I make a small fraction if what I made when I was doing my traditional 9-5 insurance analyst job.

Now I just love it when someone asks me what I do for a living and I say;


"I play electric bass guitar and sing in a rock and roll band"

Especially when it's some bloke who's intention was to "one up" you with his awesome day job.

Blue
[/quote]

Yup.....it's a coolest job in the world, when the crowd is up for it and the place is bouncing.

[HazBeen]

Semi-pro hobbyist..... Or whatever....

Lucky to earn enough from gigging to pay for our own studio, strings and such. Even luckier to be a sales director during regular working hours so I can pay for a decent lifestyle, mortgage, education for the kids etc.

I consider myself very fortunate indeed.

[Nicko]

I recetly became unemployed from my "day" job. Formerly I was a hobbyist, earning some beer money. Now music is my only paid employment. I still wouldn't call myself pro though and work is very sporadic and very poorly paid. My share of payment from a gig at a local pub would net me less than my weekly tax deductable expenses in my previous job.

IMO pro means earning enough to live with no other rersources.

[thebigyin]

Definitely wannabe hobbyist

Edited August 22, 2016 by thebigyin

[bigjimmyc]

This is definitely my hobby and escape from the real world. If I never make a penny from it but have fun I couldn't care less!

[Rikki_Sixx]

Hobbyist here! Even as a teen I wasn't interested in being a big, famous rock-star - playing in a practise room with friends is enough for me!

[FuNkShUi]

[quote name='spike' timestamp='1471032460' post='3110175']
Hobbyist here, but gigging enough to make a noticeable difference to my income. Does that make me semi-pro?
[/quote]

Yup this sums me up really.
We gig two or three times a month, mostly weddings.
And i'd say we have a professional attitude.