merlin Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 a hobbyist here,in a pro band,I have do do other jobs to make ends meet so semi semi pro??? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Wannabe here - wannabe gigging twice a week and for better money. Actively working on it for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1471819662' post='3116193'] Yup.....it's a coolest job in the world, when the crowd is up for it and the place is bouncing. [/quote] That was my band Friday Night at Kim's Lake Side. We had that place turned on. It was actually surreal. Like I can't believe I'm a part of what's causing all the excitement. Blue Edited August 22, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer.b Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I'm a pro , it's not easy but it can be done. I think it's worked out for me cos I'm pretty broad stylistically, I do electric and upright and read, I do jazz gigs , pop tours,functions, crap hotel gigs,rock, blues, country, folk, panto ,anything going basically.I think being london based helps too I wouldn't suggest for a minute I'm pro cos I'm better than all the semi/hobbyist/wannabe players so it really bugs me when guys on here have suggested they care too much about the music to do it for a living and they're better off cos they can pick and choose what gigs they take, I've got a family and mortgage etc and I'll regularly dep a well paid function to do musically rewarding gig for next to no money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 That's fine. But, just imagine, for whatever reason, that you really didn't need the money. Would you still take EVERY gig you could or would you be just that little bit more selective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer.b Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I wouldn't take EVERY gig but I'd have to go to work everyday , don't really know what your getting at? I still have the same enthusiasm for playing bass I had ad a teenager and feel privileged to be able to make a living at it. Over the years I've been in involved in many musically rewarding projects that I wouldn't of been able to do if I'd had a day job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer.b Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Sorry 4stringslow just reread your post, so if I didn't need to earn money I actually think I would do all my gigs , I enjoy playing bass and also think it's good to be busy and have purpose in life Again , don't really know what you're getting at Edited August 23, 2016 by spencer.b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I think being a musician is something of a vocational thing, maybe like a priest or something. I remember going to an Anthony Jackson master class a few years ago. He said something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1471951765' post='3117169'] Sorry 4stringslow just reread your post, so if I didn't need to earn money I actually think I would do all my gigs , I enjoy playing bass and also think it's good to be busy and have purpose in life Again , don't really know what you're getting at [/quote] I was just exploring your comment "[i]... so it really bugs me when guys on here have suggested they care too much about the music to do it for a living and they're better off cos they can pick and choose what gigs they take,[/i]". In short, who would carry on their lives exactly as they are now if they won the lottery? ie would a pro musician whose only source of income is from playing music still take on every bit of paid musical work they could even though money would no longer be significant. I've never earned my living from music and so the only reason I have for playing and gigging is because I enjoy it. Simple as that. I'm a free agent and can pick and choose what I play, when I play and (within reason!) where I play. If it was my only source of income I wouldn't have that freedom because I'd have bills to pay etc etc. I'm not suggesting that people don't enjoy their paid jobs (I guess some do, some don't) but how many actually enjoy it enough that they would keep it if they could still live perfectly well without it? There's no right or wrong answer, I'm just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1471960635' post='3117266'] I was just exploring your comment "[i]... so it really bugs me when guys on here have suggested they care too much about the music to do it for a living and they're better off cos they can pick and choose what gigs they take,[/i]". In short, who would carry on their lives exactly as they are now if they won the lottery? ie would a pro musician whose only source of income is from playing music still take on every bit of paid musical work they could even though money would no longer be significant. I've never earned my living from music and so the only reason I have for playing and gigging is because I enjoy it. Simple as that. I'm a free agent and can pick and choose what I play, when I play and (within reason!) where I play. If it was my only source of income I wouldn't have that freedom because I'd have bills to pay etc etc. I'm not suggesting that people don't enjoy their paid jobs (I guess some do, some don't) but how many actually enjoy it enough that they would keep it if they could still live perfectly well without it? There's no right or wrong answer, I'm just curious. [/quote] So why do guys like Sting, Peter Gabriel or a miriad other successful musicians carry on ? I love my job, which is not only playing, but also teaching and writing music. It's extremely tough, especially when I'm having to finance my MMus course, but I consider myself to be really fortunate and would never give it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) For every 'amateur' (in the sense of doing it for the love of it) who eschews certain unpaid gigs for reasons of inaccessibility, aesthetics or the potential for mob violence one might produce three other amateurs who will enthusiastically embrace such gigs [i]despite[/i] their shortcomings. It is indisputably the case that this forum is peppered with threads where one of our number plaintively asks: 'The singer's got us this [i]awful[/i] gig in a dreadful sh!thole and there's no money in it [i]and the other guys all want to do it [/i]but I don't. Should I tell them to poke it or what?'. And is it not equally the case that professionals might evaluate paid jobs in the light of personal satisfaction or potential inconvenience? Do not those in all walks of commercial life at times reject certain offers as being not worth the candle? Of course they do. The contention that amateur status uniquely confers upon the holder a flexibility of approach denied to others is superficially attractive. Yet the proposition is undermined not only by its equal applicability to professionals but also by the frequency with which amateurs embrace horrible, unpaid gigs, the experience of live performance supervening all other considerations in their minds. Indeed, I would consider the 'selective amateur' as occupying the worst of all worlds, being sufficiently committed to forsake remuneration yet failing to enjoy the experience enough to perform under any and every possible circumstance. One's mileage may vary, of course. Other options are available. Edited August 23, 2016 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Was pro for a year or two at a very low level, but then decided I wanted to earn money. Day job and weekend warrior for the last 30 odd years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer.b Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1471960635' post='3117266'] I was just exploring your comment "[i]... so it really bugs me when guys on here have suggested they care too much about the music to do it for a living and they're better off cos they can pick and choose what gigs they take,[/i]". In short, who would carry on their lives exactly as they are now if they won the lottery? ie would a pro musician whose only source of income is from playing music still take on every bit of paid musical work they could even though money would no longer be significant. I've never earned my living from music and so the only reason I have for playing and gigging is because I enjoy it. Simple as that. I'm a free agent and can pick and choose what I play, when I play and (within reason!) where I play. If it was my only source of income I wouldn't have that freedom because I'd have bills to pay etc etc. I'm not suggesting that people don't enjoy their paid jobs (I guess some do, some don't) but how many actually enjoy it enough that they would keep it if they could still live perfectly well without it? There's no right or wrong answer, I'm just curious. [/quote] I honestly think I would do all the same gigs including things like a sh*t cocktail hotel gig , I still enjoy it and learn from it, I'll think about hand shape, tuning, rythmic placement and I'll learn more songs and hang out with other musos ( semi/pro /wanna/hobby ) I think everyone should work(not in farage way) 4stringslow I didn't mean you were bugging me and I appreciate your measured responses , for a change this thread hasn't gone bitter! Skankdevlar raised some very interested points as ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471962700' post='3117283'] So why do guys like Sting, Peter Gabriel or a miriad other successful musicians carry on ? [/quote] Ah, but they don't do they? When did they last play down their local dive just for the love of it? They carry on on their own terms because they are not forced to do otherwise because of financial constraints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1471967394' post='3117316'] Ah, but they don't do they? When did they last play down their local dive just for the love of it? They carry on on their own terms because they are not forced to do otherwise because of financial constraints. [/quote] They're still working is what I meant. They could have stopped years ago, but continue to tour and play, when they don't have to. One mans dive is another's friendly old jazz club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1471964318' post='3117292'] Indeed, I would consider the 'selective amateur' as occupying the worst of all worlds, being sufficiently committed to forsake remuneration yet failing to enjoy the experience enough to perform under any and every possible circumstance. One's mileage may vary, of course. Other options are available. [/quote] A very good point, and I'd count myself as one of those 'unfortunate' amateurs - playing and gigging for the love of it, but not loving it enough to play or gig at every possible opportunity. I also agree that everyone's mileage will vary and other options are most certainly available, but I have a sneaking suspicion that few musicians would not vary their playing habits if money was absolutely no consideration at all. I've no doubt some would not change, but I'd bet they'd be the exceptions rather than the norm. Alas it's pretty much only a thought experiment and is unlikely ever to be confirmed one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1471967391' post='3117315'] I honestly think I would do all the same gigs including things like a sh*t cocktail hotel gig . . . . [/quote] Fair enough, and all due respect for such a choice. [quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1471967391' post='3117315'] 4stringslow I didn't mean you were bugging me and I appreciate your measured responses , for a change this thread hasn't gone bitter! [/quote] Thanks. It's sometimes difficult to convey that questioning someone is not the same as criticising them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471967694' post='3117321'] They're still working is what I meant. They could have stopped years ago, but continue to tour and play, when they don't have to. One mans dive is another's friendly old jazz club. [/quote] Yes, still working, but only on their terms, which is what I meant. Having said that, how many successful musicians have gone back touring only because they needed the money? From what I've read and seen about the reformed Police tour, the three of them could hardly stand the sight of each other, stayed in separate hotels and only actually met up on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1471968439' post='3117332'] Having said that, how many successful musicians have gone back touring only because they needed the money? From what I've read and seen about the reformed Police tour, the three of them could hardly stand the sight of each other, stayed in separate hotels and only actually met up on stage. [/quote] I've been in [s]several[/s] many amateur bands where we all lived in different houses, hated the sight of each other and only ever met up at gigs. On one occasion, mid-song I told a guitarist that if he did 'that thing' again I'd kill him where he stood. Savage enmity is good thing, actually. Stimulates one's creative juices, as The Who and The Ramones would doubtless agree. [color=#ffffe0].[/color] Edited August 23, 2016 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) [quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1471944022' post='3117090'] So it really bugs me when guys on here have suggested they care too much about the music to do it for a living and they're better off cos they can pick and choose what gigs they take, I've got a family and mortgage etc and I'll regularly dep a well paid function to do musically rewarding gig for next to no money [/quote] My kids are adults and are on their own. However I have a mortgage and bills I am responsible for and are all funded from gigs. Agreed all that stuff about being better off because you can pick and choose your gigs is highly suspect. It probably means your not positioned to play for a living and not what you want to do. It was a life goal for me and I achieved it. How many can honestly say they have always wanted to play for a living? My point, it's not something most blokes ever wanted in the first place. Blue Edited August 25, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 You're right, I never wanted to play music for a living. I wanted to retire early and not have to work at all. It was a life goal for me and I achieved it. So now I can choose to play pub gigs as and when I feel like it and not need to do it to pay the bills. I like having that choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1472151075' post='3118959'] You're right, I never wanted to play music for a living. I wanted to retire early and not have to work at all. It was a life goal for me and I achieved it. So now I can choose to play pub gigs as and when I feel like it and not need to do it to pay the bills. I like having that choice. [/quote] I've always wanted to play music for a living from the day I realized I had to make a living. And I like my choice, gigging as much as possible and I don't consider it work. I consider it a "blast". And I've never been a venue or gig snob. If you can afford our fee I could care less about the venue. Keep in mind I'm learning that gigging in the States is different than gigging in the UK. Blue Edited August 26, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1471974011' post='3117398'] I told a guitarist that if he did 'that thing' again I'd kill him where he stood. [/quote] We're not friends and rarely see each other outside of gigs either. However, we would never bring that sort of attitude, dialog or whatever to a gig. The most important part of our mission statement is to "always approach gigs as a time to have 4 hours of fun" All bands operate differently. Respect Blue Edited August 26, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1472174732' post='3119183'] All bands operate differently. [/quote] Exactly. You're happy with your lot and I'm happy with mine - what else really matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I can't see how having a choice in anything can be worse or 'suspect'? I can still take the less appealing gigs if I want or let someone else have it, the fact it is coming to me first in that instance to either take or decline tells me that my overall standard of playing and professionalism is up to that level at least. Let's have a look at this from another angle, you play for a living, other people do different jobs for a living,some people actually enjoy their jobs just like you believe it or not, if I turn down a job because I dislike the customer, the parking is terrible and my van will probably get damaged there and I have plenty of other work to do does that make me any less professional in my work that I do carry out? Just like in my musical career I might try and help the customer out by passing it onto someone else that is looking for work, at the same time thankful I've dodged a bullet. Anyway I've got a nice paying gig in a nice venue tonight for a nice customer so I better get going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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