Sandberg JM5 - lacking of lowend?

[Marsik]

Hi there!

A few months ago I bought a 5 strings Sandberg California JM. Ash body, maple neck, Delano pickups and a Glockenklang 2-band preamp.

First, I was impressed what sound I can get with the active preamp but then I realised how it's easy to get into a trap when I boost lows and highs. The sound becomes not natural, muddy and clunky.

Last gig I tried to play on a passive mode but I noticed a lack of lowend and lowmid. I was dissapointed with the sound I got. I played an SWR SM400 and a Goliath III. The same result through a Hartke HA5500.

I really like the sound of the Sandberg from the body (unplagged I mean) and when I play solo but it doesn't work in a band.

The Sandberg has a brand new Elixiry strings 40-125. It was the same with a nickel D'Addario set. The action of the strings is very low.

Any conclusions?

Kind regards,
Lukas

Edited August 15, 2016 by Marsik

[Musicman20]

Hi - this will just be creating even more of a mid scoop to a bass that will sound scooped with both pickups on anyway....

Try leaving the active circuit flat and boosting mids on an amps. If I recall correctly (could be wrong) both of those amps are also quite 'scooped' for their core tone.

[Marsik]

Thanks for your response.

I tried to boost mids on eq's. In result it was better but not enough to pleased me I like to plug and play. You're right - the SM400 has a hudge problem with a scooped mids.

I've been thinking to get an Aguilar TH/AG amp and a DB cabinet.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Marsik

[JapanAxe]

I had a VM4 and it never sounded 'scooped' to me. The JM5 (or TM5) has a J pickup where the VM4 has a P, so that could have something to do with it.

[xroads]

Do you have other basses where you don't have problems with your sound, or is this a more general setup issue?

[Marsik]

Hmmm... I also have a Squier VM '70 5. I stopped playing it when I got the Sandberg.

I only compared my axe to my friend's Sandberg JM4. It seemed his bass has a little bit more bass and less highs - maybe because of the alder body, but there wasn't a hudge difference, just subtle nuances. He likes boosting lows and highs onboard to get more punch.

Here's his bass on passive mode (old owner plays):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1r1oqrFxwTg

Here's a short sample of my bass (active, boosted lows | highs a little bit. I know, the demo isn't played well:) ):
https://m.soundcloud.com/ukasz-k-103530211/bass-backing-track-kwiecien-2016-test

Edited August 15, 2016 by Marsik

[HazBeen]

An Ash body tends to accentuate lows and highs slightly, giving a natural scoop. What fretboard do you have? Generally you would expect something like Rosewood to give some balance and prevent brittleness.

I have Glocks in a few of my basses and muddy is not what I would associate with them. They put out what you put in, very transparant. I thus do not see that is causing the issue,

I see you have very thin strings, a .040-.125 set. Couple that with very low action and I can image you sound would be a little thin. The Delano pickups are very neutral. With the ash body you perhaps needs something with a bit more mid-bite. I like Lollars or Haussels on ash bodies as they even out the slight natural scoop. Would also have nothing but rosewood fretboard on an ash bass.

One last thought, how close are your pickups to the strings?

I listened to your sound clips. The passive 4 string is not very fat, I think he is on back pickup. Always giving less lows, more mid bark. You clip sounds like a very low action (string rattle) and clearly active jazz tone. Only thing I'd change is to raise the action.

Edited August 15, 2016 by HazBeen

[Marsik]

I've got a maple fretboard (unfortunately?).

I really like ultra low action but it may impact badly on the sound indeed. Moreover, the light strings may escalate the effect. There's a sense in your reflection, thanks man

I've chosen the super light strings because I like their tension.

[HazBeen]

[quote name='Marsik' timestamp='1471281535' post='3111794']
I've got a maple fretboard (unfortunately?).

I really like ultra low action but it may impact badly on the sound indeed. Moreover, the light strings may escalate the effect. There's a sense in your reflection, thanks man

I've chosen the super light strings because I like their tension.
[/quote]

Maple and Ash gives you a more modern scooped sounding bass. Not bad if you're Marcus Miller or like his tone, but a Glock pre may then not be what you need. Parametric mids would perhaps help you, as will heavier gauge strings with a slightly higher action (in my opinion I should add).

Your amps certainly don't help the scoop as they are also quite scooped when flat.

[PlungerModerno]

I think there are two separate but related questions:

1. what does the bass sound like? (signal coming from the jack socket).

2. what does it end up sounding like through your rig, in the room your rig is in, in the context of the band?

If you can figure out the first it'll help figure out the second - but it's the way it sounds with the band that counts. I'd look at experimenting with running the bass in passive or buffer only mode (preamp on with no EQ engadged) and then EQ'ing with the amp or a rack or pedal EQ - usually more flexible than an onboard EQ.

P.S. I won't get into debating the effect of wood on tone or percieved tone - what I will say is different pickups and strings will sound different under different hands and in my experience with different setups (e.g. tweaking pickup height and varying fret clank from slight adjustments in action & relief in the neck). A direct solution might be a parametric mid - or just finding a setting where cutting highs and lows on the bass, and tweaking low mids and/or high mids on the amp gets you where you want to be. Also as a Jazz I'd recommend playing with one pickup on most of the time - But then I like Jazzes in "single coil P bass" mode myself.

Edited August 15, 2016 by PlungerModerno

[Painy]

I'd agree that raising the action would help. It may not need to be a big change either. I recently found that just raising the saddles on one of my basses by just a quarter turn of the screws really helped my tone with only a minimal effect on the feel of the action.

You also mentioned the Aguilar amp and cabs. I run an AG500 head through a pair of DB112 cabs and while it's easy to get a really full bottom end, the amp is really very strong in the mids so if you did go to the extent of changing your amp/cabs then I'd say you're probably looking in the right kind of direction with the AG/DB combination.

[Pinball]

Hi, I tried a few Sandbergs and have owned 4 including 2 Delano powered JM's. I am a sucker for their lovely build and great sound and range when solo. The thing is that whenever I used them live I could never seem to find "the" setting that I was happy with. Either I didn't like the sound or it didn't cut though in my band.

I wish that I had found an answer for you but in the end I simply swapped the last Sandberg I had for a Stingray which I just leave flat most of the time.


Note: I use GB amps

Edited August 15, 2016 by Pinball

[Marsik]

I'd like to thank you all for your thoughts and advice! I wouldn't have even expected that you guys are gonna be so helpful. Once again, thanks a lot, it's very nice!

I'm on holidays now but when I'm back I'll make a setup then try with mids. If I find an old set of 45s strings I'll try them, otherwise I'll buy new ones and see what will happen.

Hope, I won't have to sell the Sandberg and buy a Stingray or a Fender

When it comes to Aguilar... I'm waiting for a message from Ben from Cardiff who's selling an AG500

So sorry for my English, I come from Poland, actually

[JapanAxe]

Your English is much better than my Polish!

[M@23]

What strings are you using? I found the Sandberg strings to be terrible! They don't do the basses justice at all IME.

[Marsik]

I recently bought a set of Elixir strings and put it on. I used to use D'Addario nickel strings.

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='Marsik' timestamp='1471289252' post='3111915']
I recently bought a set of Elixir strings and put it on. I used to use D'Addario nickel strings.
[/quote]

I read above that you put on the lighter strings because you liked their tension.

I assume from this you like the low tension they have, I'd recommend Dunlop Super Brights, I use the nickel wound 45-105 and they are very low tension, and feel great to me. YMMV!

[Marsik]

Thanks! What about Dunlop's, how long do they sound? I decided to go with the Elixir strings because of they long life.

[bassmachine2112]

+1 on the super brights I use stainless ones and as it says they are super bright but have a good bottom end as well like a grand piano.I change mine every 8 or so months and they go on my P-bass till I change them.
Low tension is nice and they are pretty smooth for stainless, bed down nicely and keep a great tone for a long time.
I gig twice a week with practice during week and they last..

[Marsik]

Hi there,

I'm so sorry I haven't written for a while. I've had an accident on motorcycle. Finally, I've raised the action and compared my basses. A Squier VM which I've had for 4 years now is less comfortable and it's harder to slap than Sandberg but is punchier and has more low end even though there are pretty old strings on Squier. I have to string both basses with the same strings and see what will happen.

Cheers!

[mike257]

I have a JM4 and don't find this issue - have you tried using just the neck pickup? Gives me a great big chunky bottom!

[fretmeister]

I had a TM5 and never had this issue.

I was using a Tecamp Puma head and (at the time) Bergantino cabs.

[Marsik]

Hi guys!

I've solved the problem! I've recently bought an Aggie DB112 and played with my SM400. I was confused cause the sound wasn't that I expected. Today I met with my friend who owns an EBS TD650. The Aggie under the SWR sounded like rubbish... The EBS just ate its challenger! The sound I could get from it was just incredible and amazing!

[fretmeister]

Excellent!

[Owen]

Is the wiring on the Sandberg correct? It sounds like there might be a phase issue.