Flatwound string tension

[Funky Dunky]

From what I'm reading, the general consensus is that flatwounds have a higher tension than rounds of the same gauge. If this is true, would flatwound users agree that a set of .45-.105 would be stiffer to play than roundies of the same gauge? If so, would you say marginally stiffer, noticeably stiffer or considerably stiffer to pluck (like....."ouch, my poor tendons")?

[martthebass]

I always thought this FD. However when I switched to Status Hotwires I found no real difference between tensions on the same gauge (40 - 100s) on flats and rounds.

Edited August 16, 2016 by martthebass

[Funky Dunky]

I'm looking at Fender 9050s

[paul_5]

I put a set of Jim Dunlop flats (45 to 105) on my fretless, and there was very little difference in the tension - the Rotosound Steve Harris (50 to 100) needed a significant of truss rod adjustment, even drop-tuned a tone (D, G, C, F).

I seem to remember Ernie Ball flats being quite stiff too.

[Funky Dunky]

Paul, what did you think of the Dunlops?

[franzbassist]

Not all flats are the same. Some, like D'Addario, are very tight, GHS Precision Flats, Pryamid and Laklands are lower tension, Thomastiks are even lower. And that's before you even start with nylon flats!

[Funky Dunky]

Trial and error is expensive

[paul_5]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1471378612' post='3112704']
Paul, what did you think of the Dunlops?
[/quote]

Love 'em. They were a bit of a risk (as all flats are, really), but I took a gamble and it paid off.

[Delberthot]

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1471379518' post='3112715']
Not all flats are the same. Some, like D'Addario, are very tight, GHS Precision Flats, Pryamid and Laklands are lower tension, Thomastiks are even lower. And that's before you even start with nylon flats!
[/quote]

I don't find D'addarios to be that high tension - even the heavy E string I use

[drTStingray]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1471378260' post='3112698']
I seem to remember Ernie Ball flats being quite stiff too.
[/quote]

There are a range of types of EB flats - I only have experience of Group 4 or Slinky flats (Cobalts) - they both have relatively low tension (for flats) on a par with TIs or equivalent Round wounds. I agree re Roto (Jazz Bass version were the ones I used) arm wrestler territory in my experience - tried them on a five string...... not for very long it has to be said!!

Edited August 16, 2016 by drTStingray

[HowieBass]

I've got Fender flats on two basses and though I had to tweak the truss rods to get the relief correct I can't say I find the tension much different to the rounds that were fitted previously.

[Twincam]

Fender flats are awesome. They are of a high tension go for the lowest gauge! But they cover so much ground, very versatile

[Shambo]

I've found that stiffer strings allows a lower action, which means less exertion in making the string meet the fret. Swings and roundabouts.

ETA popping with heavy Labella flats isn't too easy but you build up to it. Normal fingerstyle I don't find any more difficult than rounds, stiffer flats need more of a caress than a pull...IME.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Shambo

[Twincam]

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1471389405' post='3112796']
I've found that stiffer strings allows a lower action, which means less exertion in making the string meet the fret. Swings and roundabouts.
[/quote]

Very true!

[Sibob]

I found the tension of my Newtone 50-110 roundwounds to be comparable (not exacty the same) as a set of 45-100 D'addario Chromes (which I absolutely love).
So not an exact test but gives you a ballpark idea.
I don't find the Chromes overly tight at all very playable for me. I've had Rotosounds previously and just felt them to tight. That said I use the lighter guage Chromes I imagine the heavier tension Chromes are pretty tight.

Si

p.s.
Terrible grammer is because I've literally just discovered that the comma key on my keyboard is broken lol

[Joebethell]

As others have said tension can differ a fair bit I have recently purchased a set La Bella low tension flats and they feel great not cheap at 44quid a set but they are made with a light round core so more like a roundwound that a traditional flat string.

[Delberthot]

I found the Steve Harris ones to be crazy high tension but if you drop them a semi tone they are fantastic. I had them on a single coil precision and they were ace.

[EssentialTension]

You can't tell tension from gauge alone or flat/round alone.

It's mass per unit length of string that matters (plus scale length plus pitch). Hence the internal construction of the string makes a difference because it makes a difference to the mass per unit length.

The same internal construction with a larger gauge will mean higher tension (at same scale length and pitch) but if the internal construction changes then there is no straightforward telling of the effect on tension from a different gauge.

This is complicated by the fact that tension ought not to be confused with compliance or elasticity which is not the tension of the string at pitch but its feel (or perception) under the fingers. Like tension, compliance is affected by internal string construction - e.g. hexcore/roundcore - but possibly by other factors that have no effect on tension such as break angle at the nut.


[url="http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm"]http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm[/url]

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1471377604' post='3112692'] I'm looking at Fender 9050s [/quote]

I use these, they are not noticeably more stiff than the rounds I occasionally chuck on for a change.

[chris_b]

I don't "dig in". Maybe that puts me in the minority but I see that technique as less accurate and not a good use of energy.

So, I do notice a difference in sound between strings but as I'm "stroking", not "pulling", the strings tension differences are not particularly important to me.

[xroads]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1471430243' post='3112970']
You can't tell tension from gauge alone or flat/round alone.

It's mass per unit length of string that matters (plus scale length plus pitch). Hence the internal construction of the string makes a difference because it makes a difference to the mass per unit length.

The same internal construction with a larger gauge will mean higher tension (at same scale length and pitch) but if the internal construction changes then there is no straightforward telling of the effect on tension from a different gauge.

This is complicated by the fact that tension ought not to be confused with compliance or elasticity which is not the tension of the string at pitch but its feel (or perception) under the fingers. Like tension, compliance is affected by internal string construction - e.g. hexcore/roundcore - but possibly by other factors that have no effect on tension such as break angle at the nut.


[url="http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm"]http://www.liutaiomo.../perception.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Great info thanks!!

I wanted to add to the discussion that strings with higher tension can increase the neck bow, which for your fretting hand means a bit more work to press the
strings down to the frets. This adds to the perception that the strings feel stiffer than they actually are.
I have removed the preceived stiffness of strings a few times by just adjusting the truss rod....

[Marc S]

I've always found flats to be a little to stiff, and not easy to get on with. Mind you, a few years back, I started on Double Bass, and if you think Steve Harris flats are high tension - try some orchestral DB stings!

If it's lower tension flats you're after - try Thomastik Infeld (TI) flats. I swapped from Steve Harris's to TI's and the TI's are unbelievably low tension. They are way way lower tension than any other flat I've played. It's all to do with the construction of the core - I think the TI's have some non-metal core? (could be wrong there - but that's how some DB strings achieve low tension) I got them 2nd hand on this very forum

They are expensive strings, at around 50 quid a set new, but the difference is huge. I can't imagine putting any other flats on my fretless. Mind you, some players who prefer traditional flats don't like TI's as the find them too low tension. But from my perspective, I'd recommend them. If you see them 2nd hand on here, snap them up as they go very quickly. On that note, if you find you don't get on with them - you will easily sell them on....

Edited August 17, 2016 by Marc S

[Grahambythesea]

I found the tension difference really noticeable switching from D'Adario Stainless to Chrome Flats. Really didn't like them so changed to La Bella Low Tension Flats which are just what they say on the packet. They feel perfect just like round wounds but fantastically smooth. Use them on my fretless and will probably never use anything else. 'Fraid I have never used Dunlop strings, read somewhere they don't actually make them ( like many other string brands ) and as a result can be a bit variable, factories are switched on contract price.

[ebenezer]

have to be careful with changing to flats with a like for like gauge, with jazz type basses with a slim neck and possibly weaker truss rod(not in the
first flush of youth !) you will end up with way too much neck relief and maybe at the end of your adjustment on the truss rod......so think on !!
I would go for as flexible string as i could find.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='xroads' timestamp='1471436437' post='3113026']
...
I have removed the preceived stiffness of strings a few times by just adjusting the truss rod....
[/quote]

Another way to remove or reduce perceived stiffness, or lack of compliance, is to pluck nearer to the 12th fret.

While the tension on a string is the same all along its length, the apparent compliance on a string is greatest near its centre (i.e. 12th fret) and lesser near the bridge and so, unlike tension, varies along the length of the string.