When do you consider yourself a musician.

[Happy Jack]

I'm a musician when I make music.

When I'm cooking, I'm a cook.

When I'm shaving in the morning, I'm a shaver.

Erm ... what's this all about exactly?

[thebrig]

I remember starting a similar topic a few year's ago, and I'm still not sure!

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/195747-am-i-a-musician-or-do-i-just-have-a-good-memory/

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1471809771' post='3116088']
I'm a musician when I make music.

When I'm cooking, I'm a cook.

When I'm shaving in the morning, I'm a shaver.

Erm ... what's this all about exactly?
[/quote]

To cook and to shave are verbs, musician/music isn't.

Musician is a noun, Stevie Wonder is a musician even when he is alseep for example.

Edited August 21, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[bassace]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471787238' post='3115830']


From your definition then, neither Wes Montgomery, Errol Garner, Buddy Rich or Dave Brubeck would be classed as musicians because they don't read music ?
[/quote]

From the narrow definition, perhaps not. But they were creators of music and certainly musicians. I'm not creative in the originals sense but I consider myself a musician nonetheless by my simple standards and what I'm able to contribute. Goes to show there is no one simple definition. Many of us have diverse talents to add to the musical pot.

[neilp]

I'm a musician. I have a day job these days that's nothing to do with music, but I play music so I'm a musician. Whether I'm any good at it is another question entirely. I may well be a bad musician (or "guitarist" as they're also known) but I'm still a musician

[JTUK]

When people I rate as musicians think I'm a good player.

[josie]

For me - I crossed the line the first time I got up and played an OM. It's a good community, most of the regulars play or sing, some don't and are equally welcome. I had been one of those for about a year before I took the plunge, and I was stunned by the warmth of response despite a lousy performance. I only realised then how different it is.

On the wall of my music room: "Always remember, it is far better to be the worst musician in the room, than not to be a musician."

Now I want to be a better musician. It's an endless road. Stepping onto that road is a defining moment.

[JapanAxe]

I play bass and guitar and I can sing. I used to consider myself a guitarist, but at some point when I'd been playing bass for a few years, I realised 'musician' was a more appropriate description.

[Nicko]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1471809171' post='3116081']
Tough question. I play music in a rock band for a living, but I'm not sure that makes me a musician or a pro.

I think when people outside of music business recognize you as a musician or refer to you as a pro at that point your a musician.

Blue
[/quote]

Blue, I'm sure you do this to wind us up. I'm sure you permit adjectives over there and theres nothing that prevents you from calling yourself professional musician, or for some of us to consider ourselves amateur musicians. Being paid has nothing to do with it.

[HengistPod]

Being a bit of a literalist ... I'm a professional musician.

I play music, I get paid for it. QED.

Having said that, I'd hesitate to announce myself as such to anybody, ever.

[blue]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1471850628' post='3116248']


Blue, I'm sure you do this to wind us up. I'm sure you permit adjectives over there and theres nothing that prevents you from calling yourself professional musician, or for some of us to consider ourselves amateur musicians. Being paid has nothing to do with it.
[/quote]

One thing is certain, whether I'm a pro or not, I bring a strict professional and rational attitude to every gig.

Blue

[oldbass]

I've often pondered this too. But here's my take. I'm a mediocre amateur bass player who doesn't read very well plus I never got an educational 'degree'. But I can figure out how to play most things by ear quickly.

Other half is a highly qualified bod with a PhD etc etc....but she cant even tap her fingers in time to a tune, let alone play an instrument..beleive me we've tried, which I think kinda bugs her a bit. So I suppose that makes me a musician...or does it...Ive no idea.

[ambient]

I've been pondering this the last couple of days, mainly after seeing the amazing athletes in the olympics.

If you jog in the evening after work, and do the occasional fun run does that make you an athlete ? If you play football on a Sunday morning, does that make you a footballer ?

I'd say no, so at what point does what you do as a hobby, even a serious one, enable you to elevate what you do to a level comparable with someone who's been trained and educated, and has a very large skills portfolio ?

I still maintain though, that if you play music, then you're a musician.

[leftybassman392]

With no offence intended to anybody posting on this thread, there's one or two slightly fanciful notions of what constitutes a professional musician around these parts.

At the risk of looking like Mr. Pedant of Pedant's Lane Pedanton, try this (lifted verbatim from Chambers' 21st Century dictionary):

[quote][b][i]professional[/i][/b]: (noun) [b]1[/b] someone who belongs to one of the skilled professions. [b]2[/b] someone who makes their living in an activity, etc that is also carried on at an amateur level.[/quote]

This is what I did for around 15 years (on both counts). I always considered myself a professional musician during that time.

It might also help to clarify what the term 'professional musician' actually covers. Whilst earning a living solely through performance would certainly fit the definition, the work of a professional musican frequently involves any of a range of related but different activities (teaching being perhaps the most common - but by no means the only - example).

Being a professional musician is not the same as having a professional approach (whatever that might mean) to your music making. Being a professional musician is earning a living through one's expertise and skill in the field of music.

To address the OP's question as written, anybody who plays music on anything like a regular basis has a right to call him/herself a musician. I rather suspect though that this isn't quite what the OP had in mind when asking the question. I could be wrong of course...

[i][size=2]{[b]Note[/b]: the first part of the definition in the quote above is normally associated with having a relevant specialist-level qualification. In many skilled professions this would be a valid premise; I tend to think of music as a slightly special case since there have been countless people who earned most if not all of their income from making music but who had no specialist qualifications to speak of (honorary degrees and lifetime-achievement awards don't count ). In this case the professional status derives from activity rather than educational attainment.}[/size][/i]

Edited August 23, 2016 by leftybassman392

[xgsjx]

Musician - A person who writes, sings or plays music.
Musicians could be a collective of people in a band, or it could be someone whom makes music on a single instrument.
Someone plonking away on a string might not be classed as music, hence that person may be training to be a musician.
Just like someone who rides a bike is a cyclist. If you get on a bike for the first time & fall off, you're not a cyclist until you can actually cycle.

If you play an instrument in a band and actually make music, then you are a musician. Bear in mind that you do get bad as well as good musicians.
Amateur, semi professional & professional all have no bearing on whether the person is a musician.

I play bass, guitar & keys, so I'm a musician. I could be classed as a composer as I compose tunes, but I prefer to be classed as a musician.

[Shambo]

If you are a musician you could might, by extension, describe yourself as an artist.

Is someone who quietly doodles in biro during a boring meeting an artist?
If you compose an irate reply to someones contentious post on an email forum, would you call yourself a writer?
If you shuffle around drunkenly with your nan to 'Come on Eileen' at a wedding reception, are you a dancer?

I don't know where I'm going with this.

[bassjim]

For me a musician is someone that can draw inspiration from within themselves and create a part within the music that is being played. Regardless of genre.

For example : Playing a cover of a Chaka Khan tune or a Beatles tune.

Musician : Look at all aspects of the tune and regardless of what has been played on the record instinctively know weather to keep the notes exactly the same as the record or construct their own part. A musician would typically construct a part using some of,if at all, what has been played already, and naturally make it swing,groove, sit, whatever so that it becomes an integral part of the whole musical piece. Be able to add /subtract to the part on the fly whilst simultaneously keeping it a moving emotional experience for all listening to it.

Non musician:

Is incapable of any of the above. Has no musical drive or instincts. May even have all the theory in the world but no idea how to use it. Can copy parts parrot fashion but no awareness of other musicians "feel" or groove. Plays lack lustre always with no passion. Has no interest in playing about on chosen instrument of choice just for the simple pleasure of playing it. Has no ability to create. Probably has a guitar.

[RockfordStone]

when i woke up one morning and all i wanted to do was play music and when i would put playing music ahead of everything and everyone (yes i lost GFs to music).

even tho bass is my main instrument, i have never considered myself to be a bassist/bass player, as my drive is to create music by whatever means necessary.

[bassjim]

I also think there are different levels of musicianship. From poor, un-experienced to well versed, experienced and popular......but if the passion to play music is there more than the desire to be popular then...... smells like a musician to me.

Has to come from the heart in the first place I think.

[ambient]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1471948441' post='3117143']
when i woke up one morning and all i wanted to do was play music and when i would put playing music ahead of everything and everyone (yes i lost GFs to music).

even tho bass is my main instrument, i have never considered myself to be a bassist/bass player, as my drive is to create music by whatever means necessary.
[/quote]

Sounds like me.

Bass is just a means to an end, a bass guitar is just a tool.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1471946341' post='3117117']

Someone plonking away on a string might not be classed as music, hence that person may be training to be a musician.


[/quote]
Do we always have to use Adam Clayton as an example?




*(I can hear WaterOfTyne sending a pm to the secret AC account as I speak!)

[cytania]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471944559' post='3117100']
I've been pondering this the last couple of days, mainly after seeing the amazing athletes in the olympics.

If you jog in the evening after work, and do the occasional fun run does that make you an athlete ? If you play football on a Sunday morning, does that make you a footballer ?

I'd say no, so at what point does what you do as a hobby, even a serious one, enable you to elevate what you do to a level comparable with someone who's been trained and educated, and has a very large skills portfolio ?

I still maintain though, that if you play music, then you're a musician.
[/quote]

In some running circles it's claimed you are a runner once you go over 10 miles as a training run. Is there a musician equivalent? 3 hour set? Nailing Rhythm Stick?

Edited August 23, 2016 by cytania

[JTUK]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471944559' post='3117100']
I've been pondering this the last couple of days, mainly after seeing the amazing athletes in the olympics.

If you jog in the evening after work, and do the occasional fun run does that make you an athlete ? If you play football on a Sunday morning, does that make you a footballer ?

I'd say no, so at what point does what you do as a hobby, even a serious one, enable you to elevate what you do to a level comparable with someone who's been trained and educated, and has a very large skills portfolio ?

I still maintain though, that if you play music, then you're a musician.
[/quote]

I'd agree with all that but can't go with the last sentence. But then that is my 2p... others have a different view.

[alyctes]

I'd like to be a musician, but I'll never claim I am one.

[josie]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471949694' post='3117153']
Sounds like me.

Bass is just a means to an end, a bass guitar is just a tool.
[/quote]

"You are just a bass player. That means you play the bass guitar. A true musician, like me, plays Music and uses particular instruments as tools to do so."
Victor Wooten, [i]The Music Lesson [/i]