That Victor Wooten bloke, he's rubbish, he is. There, I said it!

[toneknob]

I wish I was as rubbish as Vic

[lowdown]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1471943800' post='3117087']
It's also equally ridiculous to say "a bass player who needs a bass player is in trouble" (as mentioned by someone above)
[/quote]

Tickled me as well.
Oh well, we may as well do away with those extra Bassists in the Orchestral sections.

[BrunoBass]

Incredibly impressive virtuosity and technique. I have huge respect for VW and his ilk, the talent and dedication to reach such levels of musicianship is truly awesome. Do I want to listen to it? No. Bores me to tears.

[bagsieblue]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471903464' post='3116926']
Both his book and the DVD that he bought out are very rewarding, and recommended.
[/quote]

Agreed - they are my favourite music based teaching book and my favorite teaching DVD.

[ambient]

[quote name='XB26354' timestamp='1471932311' post='3116985']
Then again a bass player who needs a bass player to play bass behind them is always in trouble.
[/quote]

Why ?

Care to expand on that ?

I love hearing two bassists working together. There's a great Stanley Clarke album with a couple of tracks where he's playing with another bassist.

Edited August 23, 2016 by ambient

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1471936466' post='3117015']
True, but sometimes a little guidance can help you find things that you could miss/overlook on your own. I got into Dylan this way.
[/quote]

Thanks for that. My feelings precisely. Dylan being a cracking example because I hated him for his looseness and in particular his heehaw gob iron style. I scratched the surface a little and discovered that he had what people LOVE, musical ability enough to makes his words heard but not intimidatingly good for singing to. I think I need to hear Victor in a different setting to what gets put on yooboob. The post you quoted from had some pointers for me to consider. It's too early for me to call time on Wooten's work and say "That's that." wouldn't you say?

It's never too late to learn.

[lefrash]

I prefer his interviews and YouTube demos more than I enjoy his actual musical output.

I really dislike the mega fast slap thing he does.


Something S imiliar with Billy Sheehan for me, but with Billy I actually enjoy alot of his musical projects, I just don't like his soloing skills!

[XB26354]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1471943800' post='3117087']
It's also equally ridiculous to say "a bass player who needs a bass player is in trouble" (as mentioned by someone above)......they're musicians first.....they're best friends....what instrument they play is irrelevant, they want to play together. As long as they understand that they need to occupy different sonic space, who cares that they both play bass?!
Also, <select super popular guitarist> is rubbish because there's multiple guitarists in their band

Si
[/quote]

No it's not. It's called an opinion and I'm just as entitled to mine as you are to yours. Ask your non-musician friends how wonderful victor backed by another bass player is and watch their eyes glaze over. It's rare for good reason and has nothing to do with <insert 2 soloing instruments of the same type here> in a band
Also note that I didn't say two bass players together but one backing the other, i.e. one plays bass lines and the other makes a noise, sorry, solos soulfully...

Edited August 23, 2016 by XB26354

[LayDownThaFunk]

He's a good bass player but could he write a #1 single?

[Sibob]

[quote name='XB26354' timestamp='1471973480' post='3117392']


No it's not. It's called an opinion and I'm just as entitled to mine as you are to yours. Ask your non-musician friends how wonderful victor backed by another bass player is and watch their eyes glaze over. It's rare for good reason and has nothing to do with <insert 2 soloing instruments of the same type here> in a band
Also note that I didn't say two bass players together but one backing the other, i.e. one plays bass lines and the other makes a noise, sorry, solos soulfully...
[/quote]

Again, what instrument they play is irrelevant, if you ask a non-musician "do you think it's strange for one musician to backup another?", they would say "no".
What you're suggesting in the way you worded your comment was that Victor is a lesser musician/bassist or diminished in someway because he chooses to play music with his friend who happens to play bass?!
It's also worth noting that on that tour Anthony was the swing-guy, meaning he was playing keys, singing, bass, whatever the song needed.

So whilst I agree that everyone is more than entitled to an opinion, and to ignore mine, I don't think this is a subjective subject, the idea that all bands MUST have one bass player or one drummer etc. Any given musical situation should be made up of the musicians who want to be there contributing to the conversation. And if someone doesn't agree, then they're missing out on a LOT of good music on a silly principle

Si

[josie]

[quote name='bagsieblue' timestamp='1471947920' post='3117136']
Agreed - they are my favourite music based teaching book and my favorite teaching DVD.
[/quote]

I haven't listened to his playing yet, but he seems to have two modes.

His book (which has influenced me hugely) is very clear that the role of the bass is to link and support. See the quote in my .sig.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1471942772' post='3117077']
As with the recent Jaco thread...some like Wooten, others don't.

No big deal.
[/quote]
[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1471943345' post='3117081']
I remember a guitarist friend of mine brought round a DVD with him doing "You Aint Got No Groove" at some Bass Day event some 15-20? years ago.

I thought this was really good. Since then apart from the occasional thing where he is actually playing bass in a band I'm kinda numb to it.

Its the same thing for me if I see any band or artist regardless of genre playing virtuoso things for a long duration. However I would say this.....

Early Level 42 stuff has loads of instrumental youthful testosterone fulled fast playing with lots of riffs glued together. Today I cant listen to it but as an 18 year old lad I thought this was very moving stuff. If I was 15 and just starting out on bass, I'd probably want to be the next VW and although I'd in all probability be nothing even close, he would be the Mark King of today that got me into playing in the first place. Maturing as a musician and as a person comes later. (although sometimes looking at my own performances I'm still working on that )

So yes its all very twing twang twong slappidy ping ...but for all the players new and experienced that find it inspiring its got to be a good thing overall.

[/quote]

Kind of agree with these two posts really; we all like/dislike different things and it's no big deal.. Gives lots of different musicians a chance to fine their own audiences.

And it's good that there are certain kinds of virtuoso players that come along to inspire a generation of younger players, whatever the instrument.

Having said that, I also have a lot of sympathy with Trevor's OP too... Having just spent some time this morning listening to some solo VW, and his stuff in The Flecktones, Keb Mo etc, it just didn't do anything for me in particular, but that's probably because I'm just not a fan of those particular genres of music he operates in as much as his bass playing.. which I do find a bit [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] "Keepie-Uppie" if I'm honest. [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also checked out some of the VW Marcus Miller and Stanley Clarke jazz festival clips on YouTube and I feel the same way about that too, in that it just leaves me cold emotionally. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Thinking about it for a minute, I've come to the conclusion that my reaction to these kinds of bass players and their music is based on two things; [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1) I don't feel, speak or understand that sort of jazz/funk/smooth-jazz/muzak kind of language at all - the chords, chord sequences, melodic and harmonic relationships etc. Without really knowing why that is, I just don't particularly like it.. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And 2) I think the virtuoso bass player stuff goes against my very ingrained, traditional and maybe completely illogical concept of what bass playing is - particularly what electric bass playing is.. For me, the bass isn't a lead instrument, it's a supporting one (possibly the most important one), so I always prefer bass players who do that really well, as opposed to bass players who do a lot of solo/lead stuff.[/font][/color]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]But as Coilte said earlier, it's no big deal and gives us plenty of stuff to talk about at least! [/color][/font]

[Grangur]

As i said earlier. I've seen VW gig twice.

In the first gig he was accompanied by keys as well as a guitarist and drums, and Victor played bass. Anthony W was there as bass-tech.
The music was more jazz-funk and the melody and groove was strong.

In the second gig it was drums, guitar, bass and VW on "lead-bass" in an almost continuous bass solo mode. So I prefered the first gig. My opinion. Others may disagree. Like many here, I like a balance in the performance, not too much fast, continuous soloing.

[lowdown]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1472022411' post='3117671']

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1) I don't feel, speak or understand that sort of jazz/funk/smooth-jazz/muzak kind of language at all - the chords, chord sequences, melodic and harmonic relationships etc. Without really knowing why that is, I just don't particularly like it.. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And 2) I think the virtuoso bass player stuff goes against my very ingrained, traditional and maybe completely illogical concept of what bass playing is - particularly what electric bass playing is.. For me, the bass isn't a lead instrument, it's a supporting one (possibly the most important one), so I always prefer bass players who do that really well, as opposed to bass players who do a lot of solo/lead stuff.[/font][/color]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]But as Coilte said earlier, it's no big deal and gives us plenty of stuff to talk about at least! [/color][/font]
[/quote]


That's very well put and I understand your musical reasons.
I am totally the complete opposite. My ears like hearing solos from (any Instrument).
I like complex arrangements and structures. Just something that has happened to me as I have got older.
But then again my musical tastes are very, very broad from simple, to complete over the top Orchestral and Jazz offerings.

For me, he has great, melodic, lyrical quality in his playing, not to mention his good timing and groove.
But then, that's just my opinion of course.

Nothing wrong (and certainly not rubbish) with his playing on this. There is more to Vic than show boating.
I love hearing players solo and on this they all do it well.

http://youtu.be/sx5Qd6uEWq8

[Grangur]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1472023545' post='3117679']
That's very well put and I understand your musical reasons.
I am totally the complete opposite. My ears like hearing solos from (any Instrument).
I like complex arrangements and structures. Just something that has happened to me as I have got older.
But then again my musical tastes are very, very broad from simple, to complete over the top Orchestral and Jazz offerings.

For me, he has great, melodic, lyrical quality in his playing, not to mention his good timing and groove.
But then, that's just my opinion of course.

Nothing wrong (and certainly not rubbish) with his playing on this. There is more to Vic than show boating.
I love hearing players solo and on this they all do it well.

[media]http://youtu.be/sx5Qd6uEWq8[/media]
[/quote]
Cool post - THAT its where I like VW - great bass!

[Sibob]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1472023523' post='3117678']
As i said earlier. I've seen VW gig twice.

In the first gig he was accompanied by keys as well as a guitarist and drums, and Victor played bass. Anthony W was there as bass-tech.
The music was more jazz-funk and the melody and groove was strong.

In the second gig it was drums, guitar, bass and VW on "lead-bass" in an almost continuous bass solo mode. So I prefered the first gig. My opinion. Others may disagree. Like many here, I like a balance in the performance, not too much fast, continuous soloing.
[/quote]

And this is absolutely fine, no-one is saying that one should like all of his output (or any of it), but for someone to suggest that he is in someway a worse player because his mate is also on the gig, is still silly, especially when it's proven not to be true depending on how Vic chooses to staff his band (as in the first of your examples).


The other point that Nick raises above, about how he views the bass guitar is interesting. Fundamentally this is really odd to me. Bass guitar is simply an instrument, the role it plays is determined by the music and the player. I imagine that there are many many instruments that, during their infancy, were simply for accompaniment, and weren't considered solo instruments. But as the players who choose that instrument develop the voice of the instrument, it's invariably going to grow into something more.
So again, my expectation of the bass guitar is not to just play the bass line, it's just a tool to make music. Perhaps my expectation of a certain player in a certain musical context is of course to just play the bass line, but that's different to having an expectation of the instrument itself.

Remember that soloing is effectively also about developing a melodic and harmonic voice, that knowledge and appreciation is always going to help your bass lines, how your lines effect the harmony and chordal quality of a song etc. Practicing soloing is a great way to stretch the muscle, no-one is saying use it on every gig, or any gig, but it will only ever help you.

Si

[OutSpoon]

Music is subjective and we all have our favourites. Some people don't get Paul McCartney or Sting or Les Claypool or Flea or Steve Harris or Steve Lawson or whoever. There is no best or better. Some players are more technical, some are more knowledgeable but none of that has an effect on whether we connect to the music - or not. Some bass players really connect me to their music and some leave me cold. BUT I appreciate the art and ability that they all deliver. If you don't get Victor Wooten - I can't change your mind about that, in the same way that some people don't like broccoli. I can tell you all about the healthy properties and how it was made and cultivated. If you don't get it - you don't get it. But that's okay. Because plenty of people like broccoli and plenty of people like Victor. I studied with him at Music camp a couple of years ago, and met him a few times since - and he is a genuinely lovely, lovely human being. He is deeply, naturally musical and loves what he does. I don't connect to all his music, but I have my favourites. So, if you don't like it - that's cool. I know Victor would say the same thing. But you cannot deny that he is an incredible musician, and you cannot overlook the deep impact he has made on bass playing and you cannot dismiss the decades or practice, dedication and devotion that he has dedicated to the instrument.

[Skol303]

People like Wooten, Pastorius, Claypool, etc... their playing is always going to be off-putting to some people because it's showy and different. They're not typical of most bass players - and that's EXACTLY why they've gained notoriety and also why they're important. If we were all typical, then bass playing would never move forwards.

Any of these virtuoso players could hold down a groove all day long. Of course they could. But they chose to do otherwise.

None of which is to say anyone has to like what they play. That's a totally subjective issue and will always boil down to personal preference. We'd get no further trying to debate the best flavour of ice cream (but for the record it's rum and raisin).

And besides, Thundercat is way more interesting than any of these guys, but nobody seems to talk about him on here. Now that is rubbish! And there, I said it

Edited August 24, 2016 by Skol303

[toneknob]

Meanwhile if anyone's interested, Rubbish Vic and his mates the awful drummer Dennis Chambers and some sax bloke Bob Franceschini are playing in London at the Rah Rah Rooms on Piccadilly (this last bit is serious despite not sounding it)

Tickets at https://www.ticketabc.com/events/victor-wooten-trio/ (and others), blurb at http://www.rahrahroom.com/rah-rah-live/

[lowdown]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1472039404' post='3117897']
Dennis Chambers
[/quote]

Rubbish. Skip loads of Rubbish.
Nothing but a noisy Shed Builder.

Hoping to go and see that gig.

[Sibob]

Bob is equally brilliant and lovely, was teaching at Wooten Woods when I was there.

Si

[mike257]

Didn't see the recent shows that sound like they were a solo-fest, but I worked on a few shows of his previous UK run which were a more band-based thing, with a great singer, killer band, and Vic in the bassist role rather than as a soloist. I was blown away, the performance from the whole band was incredible. The virtuoso stuff is not to my taste but the guy knows how to play with other musicians and he's as good sitting back on a groove as he is tearing it up. Incredible gig and also one of the nicest groups of people I've had the pleasure of working with.

[AustinArto]

I think the problem really is that a bass guitar doesn't sound very nice when it's played really fast. Especially when it's been set up super-low. There's very little opportunity to hear the note, just attack noise.

He's clearly a great player but the fast stuff turns me off completely. Not just when he does it - there are lots of 'showboating' players who sound bad.

[bassist_lewis]

I saw/read an interview with VW and he said himself that when he goes on stage as Victor Wooten the audience is expecting him to play a certain way. So he plays in the way that's expected of him in that role.

[funkgod]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1472040324' post='3117909']
Nothing but a noisy Shed Builder.

[/quote]

, my chuckle muscle wont stop dancing
al tell dennis you said that,,,, expect footsteps and loud knocking
oh... and you will know its him cus the footsteps will be in time and the knocking will be tighter than a gnats chuff.

sounds like a great gig, would deffo go if i was closer.
so we will be expecting a photo of you with vic then ?
do it

Edited August 25, 2016 by funkgod