Buying (then selling on) for profit?

[gareth]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472232143' post='3119717']
Here's my two part guide to buying and selling.

1-when buying only pay the amount you are happy with.

2-when selling only accept the amount you are happy with.
[/quote]well said pete

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1472667110' post='3123141']
well said pete
[/quote]

Seams simple enough doesn't it? Ha

[largo]

Just found this article as I was about to raise my own topic & did a search first....

I missed out on a beauty of a Zon bass in the BC classifieds, listed & sold within 2 hours.... Now, less than 3 weeks later & it's on The Gallery site for 50% more than it was offered on BC.
I appreciate if the buyer gets it, doesn't like it & wants to resell or trade-in. Selling through a shop who wants commission, the 50% probably isn't too far off the mark. But, why not punt it back through BC and give someone else the opportunity? It's supposed to be a community after all.

[stingrayPete1977]

Is it even the same person selling it, could have been traded already?

Could they have done a trade with that shop?

Is it anyone else's business?

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1492454001' post='3280413']
I missed out on a beauty of a Zon bass in the BC classifieds, listed & sold within 2 hours....
[/quote]

You and me both!

[largo]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1492454817' post='3280425']
Is it even the same person selling it, could have been traded already?

Could they have done a trade with that shop?

Is it anyone else's business?
[/quote]

True, but unlikely in my opinion. 3 sales in 3 weeks. OP to original buyer to second buyer to trade-in/shop.
Possibly, but given how much less you get for a trade-in why not at least try selling it privately on Basschat first.
Probably not.

[GuyR]

What affair is it of ours to make judgements about what the buyer in a legitimate transaction subsequently does with their property?
The BC community has the opportunity to buy it - at the gallery, the seller's chosen method of disposal. It doesn't make them a bad person and it produces turn over for a very well-respected specialist business many of us benefit from.

[gjones]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1492454001' post='3280413']
Just found this article as I was about to raise my own topic & did a search first....

I missed out on a beauty of a Zon bass in the BC classifieds, listed & sold within 2 hours.... Now, less than 3 weeks later & it's on The Gallery site for 50% more than it was offered on BC.
I appreciate if the buyer gets it, doesn't like it & wants to resell or trade-in. Selling through a shop who wants commission, the 50% probably isn't too far off the mark. But, why not punt it back through BC and give someone else the opportunity? It's supposed to be a community after all.
[/quote]

I had a Basschat member, buy a Geddy Lee from me and trade it for a Stingray, with somebody else on Basschat, within hours of me handing it to him. The Stingray was up on Gumtree, within a day or two, for twice what the Geddy cost him.

The guy told me he didn't play bass when I met him. I think he hangs around on here checking out the 'for sale' and 'wanted forums' . I assume he buys from the 'for sale forum' and sells to the 'wanted forum' and takes a cut each time.

For somebody who doesn't play bass or own an amp (which is what he told me), he seems to be able to get his hands on an awful lot of them.

He's been very active on Basschat for at least the last 5 years.

Edited April 17, 2017 by gjones

[T-Bay]

I completely appreciate that once it's someone's property then they can do what they choose BUT I still think it's poor when dealers/ chancers haunt the classifeds on forums of all sorts and steal in to grab anything at good prices before the community has a chance. I am perhaps old fashioned but I find that a bit low and have refused to sell to such people in the past as I would rather it go direct to an enthusiast.

[Grangur]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1492458121' post='3280464']


True, but unlikely in my opinion. 3 sales in 3 weeks. OP to original buyer to second buyer to trade-in/shop.
Possibly, but given how much less you get for a trade-in why not at least try selling it privately on Basschat first.
Probably not.
[/quote]
My experience of this sort was I bought a bass on ebay for £400. I traded it in at the gallery, 3-4 weeks later for £400 and they advertised it on their site at £1000.

Did I feel I did anything wrong? No.
Did the Gallery do anything wrong? No. It's their business. It's how they live. After all, I got the bass I wanted.
I didn't frequent BC back then, but if I did, I could have advertised it here I guess. But it could have taken weeks to sell and I could've lost out on being able to buy the bass I wanted.

I really don't see your problem. Sorry you weren't able to be at the right place at the right time to get that bass, but that's how the world works.

[Thunderbird]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1492458907' post='3280472']
I completely appreciate that once it's someone's property then they can do what they choose BUT I still think it's poor when dealers/ chancers haunt the classifeds on forums of all sorts and steal in to grab anything at good prices before the community has a chance. I am perhaps old fashioned but I find that a bit low and have refused to sell to such people in the past as I would rather it go direct to an enthusiast.
[/quote]I agree the rules of the site do say something about dealers not being aloud if I remember correctly but there are still a few on here buying and selling

Edited April 17, 2017 by Thunderbird

[GuyR]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1492458907' post='3280472']
I completely appreciate that once it's someone's property then they can do what they choose BUT I still think it's poor when dealers/ chancers haunt the classifeds on forums of all sorts and steal in to grab anything at good prices before the community has a chance. I am perhaps old fashioned but I find that a bit low and have refused to sell to such people in the past as I would rather it go direct to an enthusiast.
[/quote]
I genuinely admire that you would only sell to a fellow enthusiast. Dealers make their living from buying and selling well. When I buy an instrument from a dealer or anyone else the single least relevant factor in the transaction is what the owner paid when they bought it. I don't begrudge anyone a living and I don't see their activities as haunting, stealing in or grabbing, they are just earning a crust. I have been to the last two gardiner houlgate auctions and bought very nice 1960s fenders both times. I outbid dealers but still paid a bit below retail. Like BC, it's an open market and when the price is attractive, you lose out if you hesitate.

[T-Bay]

[quote name='GuyR' timestamp='1492460786' post='3280499']

I genuinely admire that you would only sell to a fellow enthusiast. Dealers make their living from buying and selling well. When I buy an instrument from a dealer or anyone else the single least relevant factor in the transaction is what the owner paid when they bought it. I don't begrudge anyone a living and I don't see their activities as haunting, stealing in or grabbing, they are just earning a crust. I have been to the last two gardiner houlgate auctions and bought very nice 1960s fenders both times. I outbid dealers but still paid a bit below retail. Like BC, it's an open market and when the price is attractive, you lose out if you hesitate.
[/quote]
I see where you are coming from but I have seen other forums where any decent parts are snapped up before the genuine punter gets a look in, it's usually cars to be honest so some parts are known to be almost impossible to find. I don't have a problem with people making a,living but do we need a level of people who only exist to make our hobbies more expensive? Personally the answer to me is no. If I choose to part exchange something in a shop I have no issue with that but if I want to sell to someone who will then make a profit out of someone else, I want to know that beforehand, not be conned into thinking it's a normal sale. After all, if the people doing this don't feel there is anything wrong with it, why are they not upfront when buying and allow the seller to decide? That's just my opinion, obviously people are free to buy and sell as they see fit, but to me I would rather sell to someone who needs/ wants an item even if I end up with less money as a result.

[stingrayPete1977]

I've never felt the need to declare what I'm going to do with something, it's advertised as £x s, I offer a price or even the full asking price and they either take it or leave it, if there's a load of money to be made and a queue of buyers waiting so this huge profit can be made then they must have offered too cheap or I was the only person in the world to see the advert.

Edited April 17, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[GuyR]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1492462108' post='3280517']

I see where you are coming from but I have seen other forums where any decent parts are snapped up before the genuine punter gets a look in, it's usually cars to be honest so some parts are known to be almost impossible to find. I don't have a problem with people making a,living but do we need a level of people who only exist to make our hobbies more expensive? Personally the answer to me is no. If I choose to part exchange something in a shop I have no issue with that but if I want to sell to someone who will then make a profit out of someone else, I want to know that beforehand, not be conned into thinking it's a normal sale. After all, if the people doing this don't feel there is anything wrong with it, why are they not upfront when buying and allow the seller to decide? That's just my opinion, obviously people are free to buy and sell as they see fit, but to me I would rather sell to someone who needs/ wants an item even if I end up with less money as a result.
[/quote]m
The genuine punter, as you describe them, needs to be a bit more on the ball when it comes to responding quickly when a well priced item is advertised. The dealers don't have advance warning. I agree that if you were to ask a buyer whether they intended to sell on, it would be dishonest not to respond truthfully, but you always have the recourse of leaving bad feedback. I wouldn't be interested in what a buyer were to do with a bass I sold them.

It'd be boring if we all had the same opinion.
On a related subject, about a year ago, a U.K. Ebayer was listing what was obviously a very nice early 60s sphagetti-logo precision as a 1970s one. It went for £1200 as I remember. The seller obviously ignored the many warnings he must surely have received from the bass-playing community that he had grossly underpriced his bass.

[T-Bay]

[quote name='GuyR' timestamp='1492464676' post='3280539']
m
The genuine punter, as you describe them, needs to be a bit more on the ball when it comes to responding quickly when a well priced item is advertised. The dealers don't have advance warning. I agree that if you were to ask a buyer whether they intended to sell on, it would be dishonest not to respond truthfully, but you always have the recourse of leaving bad feedback. I wouldn't be interested in what a buyer were to do with a bass I sold them.

It'd be boring if we all had the same opinion.
On a related subject, about a year ago, a U.K. Ebayer was listing what was obviously a very nice early 60s sphagetti-logo precision as a 1970s one. It went for £1200 as I remember. The seller obviously ignored the many warnings he must surely have received from the bass-playing community that he had grossly underpriced his bass.
[/quote]
But the dealers make a living out of dealing so can have the sales sections of relevant forums on watching, whereas most of us mere mortals have to do inconvenient things like working which means we can't always be so 'on the ball', it as I said, it's up to the individual whatbthey wish to do, but to me I feel that the way a lot of dealers work on hobby forums undermines rather than supports those hobbies.

[largo]

I tend to go with T-Bay on this one. I know it's naive & against the bigger capitalist society we live in, but it's a nice thought to think the Basschat "community" wouldn't be the place for those just wanting to make a quick buck on reselling gear. I've always tended to price my gear on the low side thinking it's going to like-minded individuals on this forum.

[GuyR]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1492465055' post='3280544']

But the dealers make a living out of dealing so can have the sales sections of relevant forums on watching, whereas most of us mere mortals have to do inconvenient things like working which means we can't always be so 'on the ball', it as I said, it's up to the individual whatbthey wish to do, but to me I feel that the way a lot of dealers work on hobby forums undermines rather than supports those hobbies.
[/quote]

I should imagine most of these "chancers" that are variously conning, preying on, stealing in on and grabbing from us have a day job like the rest of us. It's a public forum, as has been said before. Forums are not exclusively an idealistic utopian community in the same way the real world is not. I don't mean that harshly.

[mcnach]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1492458907' post='3280472']
I completely appreciate that once it's someone's property then they can do what they choose BUT I still think it's poor when dealers/ chancers haunt the classifeds on forums of all sorts [b]and steal in to grab anything at good prices before the community has a chance[/b]. I am perhaps old fashioned but I find that a bit low and have refused to sell to such people in the past as I would rather it go direct to an enthusiast.
[/quote]

are you talking about other forums or BC specifically? Because if it's here, I don't agree... everybody here has the same opportunity, there's no 'early disclosure' for select members or anything.

It is frustrating when I've been after something fir a while, only to find I missed out by a few hours, but it is irrelevant whether the buyer is another regular member or somebody who is actively trading to make a profit: the person who gets there first has the advantage. If you want to improve your chances, then check often. I don't know, I never felt I had anybody else to blame despite my disappointment.

I do prefer to sell to a regular member as well, but in the end, if I have a buyer, I have a buyer and what they do with their stuff is not my business.
I did get annoyed once when I sold a guitar I had advertised on gumtree to a local guy. He came over, saying it was a present for his son, asked if I had any extras... he seemed nice and I loved the story he told me about his son wanting a guitar just like this one but not thinking he could afford it etc etc... I ended up bringing the price down a bit (it wasn't an expensive guitar, I went from £120 to £100) and added a gig bag, a nice strap, a decent cable... I had lots of spares.
Within the week, it was back on gumtree at a higher price. Birthday present my arse...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1492459224' post='3280478']
I agree the rules of the site do say something about dealers not being aloud if I remember correctly but there are still a few on here buying and selling
[/quote]

what?

a commercial user cannot advertise their stuff in the normal section, they have to use the affiliates section and they have a fee to pay etc... but nothing prevents anybody from buying, anywhere.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1472199946' post='3119297']
Yeah, you're not alone. If you want to haggle, that's good, I'm prepare for it, but do it properly: make me an offer and let's talk from there

Typical gumtree. At one point I put a few things on there, and I got an email for every single one either offering exactly half the amount or asking that question. They were all from the same person. I guess some people just blanket lowball and hope to get lucky at some point, to sell for profit... which is absolutely fine, I only have issues with their approach to me.
[/quote] There's a couple of folk like that your way. One in leith and the other a big taxi driver from falkirk. Sold him a Warwick SS2 ages back, "too battered" for me mate, then kept trying to haggle via text. Told him to piss off. Came back the next day and paid the price I wanted. Up on eBay for £500 more within a week "selling my dream bass, played lots of gigs on it" (he couldn't play mind you)
What was mildly satisfying though when it went for less than he paid me for it.

Anyway on the main topic of conversation...
I have a comparatively low income and what I do have I have even less to sell on bass guitars. My first bass was a status shark that I found in the back of a shop and got a good deal on - a few years later the Precision was he main gigging instrument, I realised that I could sell that and use the money and a bit to buy a warwick which were super cheap back then (which I am eternally grateful to warwickhunt for)
So I did. Every other bass I've had I've bought for under going rate. For two reasons, one, that's what I can afford, and two I'm hedging that if I don't like it, or need to shift it I can without loosing too much. I'm probably not ever going to buy a custom made bass new - mainly as buying something that's going to depreciate so much just isn't affordable for me. Much like I probably wouldn't buy a new car.
I've been lucky though and even though it wasn't my intention I have bought things that have tended to be more desirable when they've been sold a few years later than when I bought them - It's meant I've got to play some lovely instruments, I don't think that that is my fault!

[fftc]

It's the old community vs market argument.

There are people (and I am one of them) who like to think of places like this, where people who have a common interest gather, are proper communities. Within these communities there is perhaps an idealistic expectation that the members will act with the community interests at heart. It is always a disappointment when you see something that falls short of that. Even when there is no legal basis for complaint, the community ideal has been offended.

But we live in a market driven world and that will invade all places where there are transactions taking place. The hope is that they don't happen often enough to damage community spirit, and if they do then the community should try to take steps to reduce the problem.

I've not been a member here long, but I have seen some great community spirit displayed by some members, I have also seen some less charitable behaviour! Let's just hope the good continues to outweigh the bad.

[dmccombe7]

I generaly only buy if i think its a fair price or lower.
I generally wouldn't quibble with someone on BC and if its a fair price i'll pay what they are looking for.

I've had guys offer me a reduction after showing interest or they've offered me a discount to cover fuel cost because i've travelled a fair bit.
I've never met someone when buying with the intention of trying to barter them down a bit.
If i agree to buy i will pay what was agreed.

With regards selling i'm usually happy getting what i paid if its 2nd hand and try to aim new items at approx 2/3 to 3/4 of the original price depending on demand for the item.

Dave

[Happy Jack]

Ultimately it comes down to who you know. If you buy from / sell to a Basschat newbie with 37 posts then there's not much point expecting anyone to be "community minded".

The vast majority of my trading (of which there has probably been far too much) has been with Basschatters I knew, either in the sense of them being long-term regulars on here, or in the sense that I had actually met them in meat-space, had a chat and maybe a beer or two.

One of the main reasons why I trade here far less than I used to is that most of the Basschatters I used to trade with are no longer here!

My own view is that, once a bass is sold it's sold. It's no longer my property and unless I declared a deliberately below-market price in my sale because [i][b]it's for charidee mate[/b][/i] then what my buyer goes on to sell for is simply not my concern.

Don't get too carried away with the HUGE increase in "value / cost / price" when something sold here turns up at The Gallery or Wunjos or wherever.

If I sell a bass to Bill for £500 and he decides to flip it immediately, then Bill takes it to a shop and says that whatever the shop can sell it for he wants at least £600 back.

The shop also want to make £100 gross profit or there's no point, because they have overheads to meet (staff wages, shop rent & rates, etc.) so that's £700.

But they need some wiggle room to allow for haggling so they list it at £800.

Except that the shop will have to pay VAT on the profit they make (= the value added). Were they to sell for £800 (i.e. the buyer doesn't haggle them down) and then give £600 to Bill, then their profit will be £200, so they actually have to list the bass at £840.

So that's MY £500 bass which suddenly reappears in a shop window listed at £840 - bastards! complete and utter bastards!!!

Erm ... no. Nobody is getting rich here, no one is getting ripped off. And there's no guarantee that the shop will be able to sell that bass this side of Xmas. Chill guys, chill.

[Geek99]

personally I dont think you can realistically expect altruism from all members and a certain number will have a primarily mercenary outlook. I include myself in as far as that because my purchases are based around a hobby (nothing more; its not like I pay the mortgage with gigging) and so I feel the need to sell for the maximum possible, and buy the best value possible because at the end of the day I have to have enough spare money to feed the children and keep a roof over their heads. If person A sells for too low an asking price and their item is swiftly resold by person B for more, possibly a lot more, then I don't have an issue with that. They should have asked for a higher price or sold elsewhere for a faster result. Regrettable but also avoidable.

I do think however that if person C sees person A selling for too low an asking price but doesnt want it themselves then maybe a quick PM nudge would be helpful to avoid sellers regret.