Buying (then selling on) for profit?

[discreet]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1472033252' post='3117800']
It's quite sobering to calculate all the taxes and duties we end up paying!
[/quote]

Too right! Smash the state! Oops, sorry.

[4stringslow]

I wasn't suggesting taxation is a bad thing, far from it, but it's an indication of how costly it is to run our civilised society and maintain our standards of living, which is probably why government likes to 'hide' the true amount of tax we pay by making the system so complicated that we can't see the wood for the trees!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1472031130' post='3117759']
I got some aggro on a sales thread (not pm!) a week or so back.

I bought a cab at £550. I sold it on straight away at £650.
The price was negotiable, especially somebody making it easy, coming to collect.

In between buying and selling it, I drove 240 miles to collect it.
I drove 260 miles to deliver it.

I spent over 12 hours (mainly looking at exhausts on the M6) between buying and selling. I spent pushing £90 on fuel.
So for my 12 hours of efforts, I profited by just over £10.

The guy who publicly gave me a hard time wasn't so keen on it when it was originally up at £700, from the original seller.

OH, and I sold it straight away because I'd misjudged how big it was. So, stupidity on my behalf.
[/quote]

That seems absolutely fair...and you are very detailed and upfront about it. It was more to cover very extensive costs.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1472030763' post='3117756']

How do you draw the line?

When is it respectable to make a profit on something in life, and when is it wrong?

If you do a gig in your town do you charge less than if you're driving 20 miles?
If you get a lift to a gig from a mate, do you waive some of the money you'd be paid, because it's not right you should make anything out of it above what you'd normally get?
If you were doing a gig in the pub across from your house, would you do it for free, as it cost you nothing?

I'm not saying you dislike any profit being made in anything, but provided all parties in any deal are happy, what's wrong with profit?


Some folk on here split down their basses and sell the parts separately as that way will get more money. Is that wrong?
[/quote]

As you've guessed I don't see a problem with profit generally, it is more the 'quick profit for basically nothing' I dislike.

I come from a musical background of playing for a minimal amount to cover fuel, or sometimes £0. It's part of the modern punk DIY underground ethic, which I think is a great thing. What I don't like is the bands spending lots of time and maybe even their own cash on fuel, hotels (if required), food, etc, for a fun gig opportunity, for the organiser to then walk home with £500+ for basically putting flyers on facebook and taking advantage of people's good nature to play for fun.

All depends what it is. A band who are obviously there as a 'job' is different, e.g. a wedding band set to play for a long time, songs that have been requested, it is a 'job'...so to speak. I've played in a few covers bands in my time, and not made huge amounts of cash, and I didn't expect to....I was there as a 'job', and fortunately for me I enjoyed it 95% of the time.

[Conan]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1472026376' post='3117710']
There is a 'sense' of community, no doubt. If you look around the various sections in BC you'll see a lot of the same names. Some more prominent in some sections than others, but if you're around a little, yes, you get that sense. However, the marketplace is different. While many of those are 'regulars', there's quite a few users that seem to only contribute in that section. I just don't feel the same degree of 'community' with any of them. In other words... I would do a better deal for a 'mate' as you put it, or someone I have some sense of 'affinity' with... but I'm not that inclined to do a deal with someone whose presence in the world was only known to me from answering to my for-sale ad.

Even within the community... it depends on how much you need the cash. If I'm selling because you just don't want an item, I'm more likely to set a good price so that it goes fast, or open to trades where I may not be getting the best deal but I get something else I fancy. After all I've also been on the positive side of trades sometimes too. But if you are selling because you really need some cash injection... why would you not sell for the price something is worth?

I think we should see the 'good deals' within BC as something to be happy about, instead we seem to take it for granted so that we feel bad about standard trading practices. That's not quite right.
Just like it's not right, in my opinion, to worry so much about what others do with their stuff, like selling, and the prices they ask for. It has a bad whiff of jealousy however I look at it. The sense of community is not damaged if some people buy and sale for profit (and I'd buy from anyone who has what I want at a price I'm prepared to pay, and I don't care how much they paid - or do you just care when they made a profit? How about when they make a loss? Do you offer to pay them extra because hey, we're the BC community? ) - the sense of community is formed outside the trading, mostly, and I don't see that being affected. It is affected, however, if we start to mind too much other people's business. This is an internet forum, open to the public (with everything that this entails, good and bad), not a cult.
[/quote]

I was going to post something in this thread, but Jose's post here absolutely nails what I would have said. Top post sir!

I had a similar experience to the OP a few months ago when I sold my beloved (so I thought!) Status series II on here. A few days later it turns up for sale again (having already changed hands twice) for several hundred pounds more than i sold it for. I miffed me for a little while, but, as others have said, I was happy with the price I got for it so easier to live and let live.

Equally, the "community spirit" on here can be a double-edged sword. Some have felt it's wrath and it's not a pleasant sight. Mates-rates for genuine friends and aquaintances is cool - but just because someone is a member on here (and how many thousands are there?) does not entitle them to a price reduction IMV.

Having been caught up in the dilemma of the half-price Genz Benz 212 cabs a couple of years ago, I tend to tread very carefully now when it comes to profit vs fair asking price...

[machinehead]

I recently bought an item that I knew the seller had paid less for than I was paying him, but I was happy with the price or I wouldn't have bought the item. I see nothing wrong with this because I had the choice to buy or not.

Secondly, what do people think about a situation where you bought an item on basschat several years ago and when you come to sell it's worth a bit more? Isn't it fair to sell at a price you would have to pay to replace the item in the present time?

Are we saying you should sell at the price you paid say 6 years ago? And then, if you regret selling a week later and try to buy a replacement, you have to cough up say an additional £100 to buy an identical item. The market sets the price after all.

I've never made a profit from selling on basschat, I've simply bought and sold at the fair market price at the time of the transactions.

Frank.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1471992270' post='3117586']
£1,100 to a list price of £1,650 isn't going to be desperately profitable.

Let's say the buyer haggles to get around 10% off and settles on £1,500.

That's an initial profit of £400.

VAT wipes out £80.
[/quote]

The VAT bit was where I lost you.

Bass Direct are VAT-registered, so AFAIK have to charge VAT on the entire price. On a sale at £1500 the VAT included is not £80 but £250.

The shop has then paid £1100 for a bass which they are now selling for £1250, a GP of £150 (or 13.6%) before allowing for any overheads, or treatment of the bass.

This looks like pretty normal business to me. Am I missing something?

[luckydog]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1472035656' post='3117840']Equally, the "community spirit" on here can be a double-edged sword. Some have felt it's wrath and it's not a pleasant sight. Mates-rates for genuine friends and aquaintances is cool - but just because someone is a member on here (and how many thousands are there?) does not entitle them to a price reduction IMV. [/quote]

From what I can tell, the community spirit here is hotly divided when it comes to making money. Some peeps seem to squarely link matters bass and making money, and others don't. I don't think it's safe to assume that goodwill extends to money anywhere in life, you know how even mates can be when it comes to such things ? Goodwill can be readily exploited, but that's no excuse not to offer it I feel, though I wouldn't assume it extends it to buying/selling here FWIW.

LD

[Pinball]

Going back to the original thread I understand your pain.

I found a real bargain Pinball game and sold it on at the same price to a friend cheap. He had told me for years that it "was the game he always dreamed of owning". When I saw him 3 months later he told me that he had sold it as he had been offered 4x the amount I had sold it to him for....

..I guess dreams have a price

As long as your happy with the price you got that's fine. Once it is sold it's not yours anymore. People can ask what they like.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Pinball

[discreet]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1472037321' post='3117863']
This looks like pretty normal business to me. Am I missing something?
[/quote]

Nope.

[molan]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1472037321' post='3117863']


The VAT bit was where I lost you.

Bass Direct are VAT-registered, so AFAIK have to charge VAT on the entire price. On a sale at £1500 the VAT included is not £80 but £250.

The shop has then paid £1100 for a bass which they are now selling for £1250, a GP of £150 (or 13.6%) before allowing for any overheads, or treatment of the bass.

This looks like pretty normal business to me. Am I missing something?
[/quote]

VAT on used goods is chargeable on the gross profit made not the full sale value.

EG buy in a product at £1,000, sell at £1,500. Profit is £500 and VAT payable is 20% of £500 = £100.

[Happy Jack]

Thanks Barrie, that's useful - I've never run a business which traded in used goods.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1472040187' post='3117907']


VAT on used goods is chargeable on the gross profit made not the full sale value.

EG buy in a product at £1,000, sell at £1,500. Profit is £500 and VAT payable is 20% of £500 = £100.
[/quote]

I know there is no point me moaning, but I think paying VAT on a product that has already attracted VAT is just insane.

[fleabag]

If anyone doesnt like capitalism rearing its ugly head, it might better to move to a socialist state somewhere

Why anyone gets suprised anymore about profit being made at all by anyone, in any sector , anywhere, IS actually surprising

Yes, its ugly, but thats the way the world works. Its not milk and honey. Better to get over it / join in / etc

[fleabag]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1472043625' post='3117943']
I know there is no point me moaning, but I think paying VAT on a product that has already attracted VAT is just insane.
[/quote]

Legal Gov. backed robbery.

Its been going on for a fair few decades now, and not just here in the UK

Think about the taxes paid when you buy a bass from the USA. They add the VAT on the cost of shipping too ! That isnt " value added tax " If you paid £300 for the bass before shipping then the value of the bass is £300, not £400 because the shipping cost £100 on top

Hows about that for legal robbery right in front of your face and in daylight ?

Edited August 24, 2016 by fleabag

[fleabag]

Capitalism at its ugliest / finest

PS how do you know he's making a profit ?

Edited August 24, 2016 by fleabag

[Fionn]

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1472043712' post='3117946']
If anyone doesnt like capitalism rearing its ugly head, it might better to move to a socialist state somewhere
[/quote]

I'd rather make a socialist state of where I reside, thank you.

Interesting thread, this.

[LayDownThaFunk]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1471981288' post='3117475']
Is it just me or has the page been taken down?
[/quote]
Nah just you pal

[fleabag]

[quote name='Fionn' timestamp='1472065629' post='3118205']
I'd rather make a socialist state of where I reside, thank you.

Interesting thread, this.
[/quote]

You'll be joining a very small club. Good luck

[Lozz196]

In general I will only sell an item on on Basschat for what I`ve paid for it, if bought on Basschat in the first place. That`s me, I`m not bothered if someone sells an item for more than what they paid for it, their choice and good luck to them.

[Hobbayne]

Edited August 24, 2016 by Hobbayne

[funkgod]

i have had this in the past, very annoying, about a 2 years ago i sold my wal 6 string to a guy who said he has always wanted one, dream bass, never get rid, loves it bla bla...... and the big one , " if ever i sell it i will contact you first"
so, seems a nice bloke.
3 weeks later or so, i spotted it on ebay and he sold it for nearly 600 more then he paid for it,
The Ba$!@£D

SO.. now if i sell anything, i sell it for what its worth, market value, no money knocked off, no mates rates, nothing extra, that way
everyone is happy

Edited August 25, 2016 by funkgod

[Geek99]

+1
mates rates are for people you really know, in person, and who can look it over and decide, in the flesh.

[stingrayPete1977]

Funny how no one complains if the market drops out the bottom for an item after they've sold it isn't it? Has anyone received some compensation from the seller after buying a used Warwick after they crashed years ago?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1472130277' post='3118744']
i have had this in the past, very annoying, about a 2 years ago i sold my wal 6 string to a guy who said he has always wanted one, dream bass, never get rid, loves it bla bla...... and the big one , " if ever i sell it i will contact you first"
so, seems a nice bloke.
3 weeks later or so, i spotted it on ebay and he sold it for nearly 600 more then he paid for it,
The Ba$!@£D

SO.. now if i sell anything, i sell it for what its worth, market value, no money knocked off, no mates rates, nothing extra, that way
everyone is happy
[/quote]
I can understand a little bass chat money off price and no eBay fees or pay pal fees passed onto the buyer to sweeten the deal but why did you sell it at £600 below the market value or did you not research the values before selling? Either way you can see where the decision to sell at the price falls can't you?

Some people honestly think the next bass will be the one.....for a week.