Coilte Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Just thought I'd seek some feedback and opinions from you lads, before making a definitive decision. I play in a covers band with two guitars and drums. We play small pub gigs. I have a GK MB500 head and GK MB2x12 cab (600 watts/8ohms). The head puts out 350watts @ 8 ohms. I would have thought that this was sufficient for these type of gigs. Invariably I have the volume at almost maximum and it seems to be jus about enough. The other issue (quite apart from the above) is that, even though wearing ear plugs, my ears still feel "a bit tender" the next day. Sometimes the crowd at a venue are loud before we even play a note. The band's volume on top of this, makes for an extra VERY loud gig indeed. I have broached the subject with the lads more than once. They take things on board, but it's soon forgotten about, until I broach it again. They say that we have to play loud to compensate for the loud punters. It seems that I am the only one who is affected in any major way by this extreme (at least it seems that way to me..) volume. The most recent gig, last week, was a "loud punters" one, and I suffered the next day. We have a rehearsal this evening, and I'm going to bring up the subject once again. Then I'll see how it goes. If there are no satisfactory results....then I'm out !! It's the last thing I want to do, but my hearing trumps any band any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashsagar Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 What kind of earplugs are you using? If it's the molded ones are you using the strongest filter? I got mine from specsavers. About £130 and I have the med filters and they are great. best £130 I spent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 You are right to prioritise your hearing, but it sounds like (heh) your ear protection could be improved. But in any case your band obviously plays way too loud and the 'loud punters' thing seems to be an excuse to whack up the volume. I'd press a bit harder for fewer beans at gigs and if this doesn't happen, find a band who are more sensible about it. Easier said than done, I know. But most bands are just too bloody loud, it's a real problem. Anyone who says they need to play loud to 'get their sound' is talking bollocks, frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Currently I'm playing in two bands and they both play loud. I've used earplugs for a long time as i gave up on trying to get bands to play at sensible levels. Recently I joined the house band for a weekly jam session and after a couple of sessions I told them that the volume far too loud and was a deal breaker for me. Even with the custom 17db earplugs I use they were far too loud. Two guitarists with open backed cabs using high wattage valve amps distortion and a drummer was ridiculous and its a small venue too. Since my complaint to the band leader the volume has reduced by about 50% but I still wear my plugs. I would walk if I couldn't deal with the volume. If you are not wearing earplugs It might be a good idea to try these out first before quitting. Even for bands that don't play loud they are really good and I wear them when I go to watch concerts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='ashsagar' timestamp='1472032423' post='3117780'] What kind of earplugs are you using? If it's the molded ones are you using the strongest filter? I got mine from specsavers. About £130 and I have the med filters and they are great. best £130 I spent [/quote] A good point. I bought a pair of the molded plugs a few years ago when with another band. The filters are 15's and did not seem strong enough. Unfortunately, these filters are not interchangeable. Recently I have resorted to using wax ear plugs. What would be the strongest filters ? I may have to consider getting another set of plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'd echo the advice about better ear protection, you can't really spend enough on that, given that very very very good (moulded) protection comes at the cost of a couple of pedals... It does sound very loud for pubs, tho - the starter volume is usually the drummist: is he a one-trick monster, or can he play with a little more, erm, sublety? If the former, is he miked and going through the PA? That can start a volume war escalation... I find smaller stages mean closer proximity to the drummist and the cymbals, which are the killer for my ears. I've mentioned this before, but I bring an angled amp stand (which I no longer use) which I selflessly offer to the guitard, and use it to make sure his combo/cab is pointing at his head. They're always happy, and never suspect my ulterior motive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 The ACS ones offer up to 27db of reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 another do you mic up the drums? if you do, don't ( maybe a bit of bass drum if you must) and set the other levels to match them, can never understand why bands mic up the drums for a small pub gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) I agree with Discreet . always a problem with bloody immature guitarists. Its something you wont win so get the ear plugs sorted first. They aint gonna change and if you have that many punters that make enough noise before you even start thinking about playing you probably have a good gig. Dont throw it away just because of a knob or two. Personally I've been here where the whole bands mentality is turn it up as loud as possible. A lot of punters enjoy this stupid volume so just get the plugs, and keep taking the money. You cant get a great bass tone against this sort of racket and its depressing. Unless you can jump ship or start a new band that can be up and gigging asap, its lose out or put up with it. Feel your pain... Its when you turn up and the gitard and drummer are busy shoving various protectors in their ears prior to turning the amps on that I find funny...just turn the f*** down!!!!! So glad I don't have these problems with my current regular band. I do have a list of problems that irritate me with current band mates but at least its not this playing at stupid volume. Our gitard does try to whack it up but I've house trained the rest of the band now. He gets told pretty quick to keep it in check by every one and I dont even have to be the hitler any more about it. Edited August 24, 2016 by bassjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 That sounds way too loud for pubs. Are you sure the audience aren't being loud to compensate for the loud band. We play up beat mod and punk stuff so always get rowdy crowds but even then my LH500 is never over 2 or 3 on volume. I can't see how you're getting a balanced sound playing at those levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1472033109' post='3117794'] I'd echo the advice about better ear protection, you can't really spend enough on that, given that very very very good (moulded) protection comes at the cost of a couple of pedals... It does sound very loud for pubs, tho - the starter volume is usually the drummist: is he a one-trick monster, or can he play with a little more, erm, sublety? If the former, is he miked and going through the PA? That can start a volume war escalation... I find smaller stages mean closer proximity to the drummist and the cymbals, which are the killer for my ears. I've mentioned this before, but I bring an angled amp stand (which I no longer use) which I selflessly offer to the guitard, and use it to make sure his combo/cab is pointing at his head. They're always happy, and never suspect my ulterior motive... [/quote] In fairness, I don't think the drummer is the problem, as he is a comparatively light hitter. As I mentioned above, I dished out a fair amount of money on custom plugs (15's filters) but they did not "do the trick". The problem is the [u]combined[/u] band volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1472033531' post='3117811'] In fairness, I don't think the drummer is the problem, as he is a comparatively light hitter. As I mentioned above, I dished out a fair amount of money on custom plugs (15's filters) but they did not "do the trick". The problem is the [u]combined[/u] band volume. [/quote]well you mix must be awful then, can't you get someone out front to tell you if someone's to loud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1472033464' post='3117809'] That sounds way too loud for pubs. Are you sure the audience aren't being loud to compensate for the loud band. .[/quote] No. At the last venue when I was loading in, the volume from the punters was already pretty loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I suppose I'm lucky in that I've never had to wear ear protection as we just don't play that loud. The guitarist is the same (although he wears them for his pro band) and doesn't like it too loud. We only mic the vocals - nothing else through the PA It really doesn't have to be deafening to get a good tone or to have a good night. Think of the poor punters too - will your liability insurance cover hundreds of people with hearing loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I've yet to be in a small pub where people could talk over a drummer playing...it's gotta be too loud. Are you all setting levels which sit comfortably with an unmiked drummer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I've played some loud gigs over the years, with very loud guitarists an drummers, using a variety of amps. As yet I've never had any of those amps anywhere near the maximum volume settings. No one would say that I'm a quiet, in the back ground sort of player. Just can't imagine how horrible your band set up must sound. Think I would have long ago walked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddBass65 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 My first suggestion would be get yourself to an ear specialist and have your ears checked out, then see what plugs etc they suggest. Obviously the guitar volume battle is one us bassists seem fated to lose, but perhaps look at where you are on stage - is one of them amps blasting right at you, or snare/cymbals too close or a PA speaker? From bitter experience many years ago, and with about 40% hearing in my right ear as proof, placement can make a big difference. Or taking a baseball bat to the offending guitarists...but that's almost always a last resort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='OddBass65' timestamp='1472035946' post='3117842'] My first suggestion would be get yourself to an ear specialist and have your ears checked out, then see what plugs etc they suggest. Obviously the guitar volume battle is one us bassists seem fated to lose, but perhaps look at where you are on stage - is one of them amps blasting right at you, or snare/cymbals too close or a PA speaker? From bitter experience many years ago, and with about 40% hearing in my right ear as proof, placement can make a big difference. Or taking a baseball bat to the offending guitarists...but that's almost always a last resort. [/quote] That last suggestion sounds good !!!!! I have been to a hearing specialist and it seems my hearing is below average for my age (62). Generally, as with a lot of pub gigs, space is at a minimum and we don't always have the luxury of having our amps placed in the ideal position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1472032203' post='3117778'] I have broached the subject with the lads more than once. They take things on board, but it's soon forgotten about, until I broach it again. [/quote] Not sure you can win this one mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472033333' post='3117805'] another do you mic up the drums? if you do, don't ( maybe a bit of bass drum if you must) and set the other levels to match them, can never understand why bands mic up the drums for a small pub gig [/quote] Partly because the Kick tends to get lost quite easily Can you not invest in a proper PA and run a quiet stage volume and high FOH volume? (ie mic guitars/etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 We definitely play too loud. I know the sound is better when we turn it down. The PA should do the work and stage sound should be quiet. I've heard of pro bands where the stage volume is ridiculously quiet. I reckon it's our drummist that spoils the balance with the sheer volume of his kit. Maybe an electric kit is the answer. I know that constant loud volume is not good and your ears defence is to block certain frequencies. Trouble is, you think you can't hear yourself and turn up. A vicious circle with audience enjoyment being a. Casualty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydog Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 If anything is louder than the cymbals when standing next to them as a bass player, something seriously is too loud in the band, and fair chance you'll damage your own hearing, if not other peeps in the audience. LD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Recently played with a band where the guitarist was so loud I couldn't hear the snare with a VERY heavy handed drummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1472032203' post='3117778'] We have a rehearsal this evening, and I'm going to bring up the subject once again. Then I'll see how it goes. If there are no satisfactory results....then I'm out !! It's the last thing I want to do, but my hearing trumps any band any day. [/quote] When you bring it up, tell them that it's crunch time, "this is the last time" etc. It's fair to everyone then - if it's still to loud then you leave and they can't say they didn't get fair warning. If they heard you, that is Good luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1472039788' post='3117904'] When you bring it up, tell them that it's crunch time, "this is the last time" etc. It's fair to everyone then - if it's still to loud then you leave and they can't say they didn't get fair warning. If they heard you, that is Good luck ! [/quote] Thanks. Yep...that's the general plan. This evening's rehearsal will be the third time I have brought up the subject. If I do walk, they can't say it was a bolt out of the blue, or that they did not get sufficient warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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