Thinking of quitting the band....volume issues.

[ambient]

I've left bands before due to volume issues.

It's stupid, once your hearing is damaged, that's it.

In general we play too loud, it's not necessary.

[Mattpt85]

This does sound like the overall volume is way too loud.
I play in a noisy punk covers band with two guitarists churning out open/power chords (one on his bloody lead channel, but that's beside the point) and an 'enthusiastic' drummer.
Had various amp/cab combinations but never had volume past halfway

[Coilte]

[quote name='Mattpt85' timestamp='1472042140' post='3117923']
This does sound like the overall volume is way too loud.
I play in a noisy punk covers band with two guitarists churning out open/power chords (one on his bloody lead channel, but that's beside the point) and an 'enthusiastic' drummer.
Had various amp/cab combinations but never had volume past halfway
[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback. It's obvious to me that we are too loud. My volume knob, tells me as much. I just needed some second independent opinions to make sure I was not over reacting. I just need to make a final attempt (trying to catch the wind perhaps !!!) to convince the others of this.

[Telebass]

Am in the process of reducing our volume. Better placement of monitors, take stuff OUT of the PA, and TURN THE F**K DOWN. We just did a gig in a 500-capable town hall, and we kept it way below previous pub volumes. Sounded great, no hearing stress for anyone. Next: persuade the drummer to use hot rods in small venues so he still welly everything without killing eardrums...

EDIT: new side project is a bluesy trio. Guitarist has a new Blues Junior. Quite capable of being loud, but being 15W sets a limit...also, drummer has more than one setting!

Edited August 24, 2016 by Telebass

[PaulWarning]

at a local pub venue with in house PA, the sound guy just turns up the guitar in the guitarists monitor when he wants him to turn down, (after he's asked him nicely) says it works everytime

[ambient]

There was a thread that I started last year about bands being too loud.

I did a lot of jazz gigs for a guy last year, some really nice gigs with appreciative audiences. I always felt we were too loud though, the music lost its intimacy and dynamic.

After one gig in a marquee where we couldn't be loud, the guy turned to me and said "wasn't that nice, I could hear every little nuance of the music".

Ok so that's jazz, but I think it applies to most genres.

[ubit]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472046259' post='3117977']
at a local pub venue with in house PA, the sound guy just turns up the guitar in the guitarists monitor when he wants him to turn down, (after he's asked him nicely) says it works everytime
[/quote]

This shows that with a sound man, it's not really an issue. Most pub bands don't have the luxury of a dedicated sound man and rely on one of the band setting levels ( if you use a PA that is ) You also rely on someone in the audience letting you know " how it's sounding"
I'm the singer as well as being the bass player and I am tied to the mic stand and struggle to get out front to hear how it's sounding, so have to rely on others This annoys me because I want to know we have a balance as I don't trust our guitarists opinion of a good sound. He once told me bass should be felt and not heard. There is nothing worse than hearing a decent band with a poorly balanced sound. It can make people think they are bad when they are not. A loud band can be off putting to the audience, but if the stage sound is too loud it puts off the members and as I said earlier, your ears will compensate by blocking certain frequencies.
We played a small pub once and decided not to use our PA. just back line. What a difference. It was one of the best sounds we have ever had. We realised we needed to be quieter but it lasted one gig, then it was back to loud as hell.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1472064432' post='3118175']
This shows that with a sound man, it's not really an issue. Most pub bands don't have the luxury of a dedicated sound man and rely on one of the band setting levels ( if you use a PA that is ) You also rely on someone in the audience letting you know " how it's sounding"
I'm the singer as well as being the bass player and I am tied to the mic stand and struggle to get out front to hear how it's sounding, so have to rely on others This annoys me because I want to know we have a balance as I don't trust our guitarists opinion of a good sound. He once told me bass should be felt and not heard. There is nothing worse than hearing a decent band with a poorly balanced sound. It can make people think they are bad when they are not. A loud band can be off putting to the audience, but if the stage sound is too loud it puts off the members and as I said earlier, your ears will compensate by blocking certain frequencies.
We played a small pub once and decided not to use our PA. just back line. What a difference. It was one of the best sounds we have ever had. We realised we needed to be quieter but it lasted one gig, then it was back to loud as hell.
[/quote]we always have a couple of partners in the crowd they let us know if somethings not right, surely all bands have someone at gigs to tell them if something is wrong, we never mic anything up except vocals and the bass drum, me and the singer are also wireless so we can make sure the sound is ok at sound check, of course if you have a guitarist who thinks bass should be low in the mix you just have to ignore him, I agree with you about bands being too loud, that's why we don't mic the drums up

[blue]

If your not making your living from playing music you can quit anytime for any reason.

If playing in any band is your only source of income,you don't quit until you find another band that can pay you at the same level.

Blue

[mcnach]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1472032203' post='3117778']
Just thought I'd seek some feedback and opinions from you lads, before making a definitive decision.

I play in a covers band with two guitars and drums. We play small pub gigs. I have a GK MB500 head and GK MB2x12 cab (600 watts/8ohms). The head puts out 350watts @ 8 ohms. I would have thought that this was sufficient for these type of gigs.

Invariably I have the volume at almost maximum and it seems to be jus about enough.

The other issue (quite apart from the above) is that, even though wearing ear plugs, my ears still feel "a bit tender" the next day. Sometimes the crowd at a venue are loud before we even play a note. The band's volume on top of this, makes for an extra VERY loud gig indeed.

I have broached the subject with the lads more than once. They take things on board, but it's soon forgotten about, until I broach it again. They say that we have to play loud to compensate for the loud punters. It seems that I am the only one who is affected in any major way by this extreme (at least it seems that way to me..) volume. The most recent gig, last week, was a "loud punters" one, and I suffered the next day.

We have a rehearsal this evening, and I'm going to bring up the subject once again. Then I'll see how it goes. If there are no satisfactory results....then I'm out !! It's the last thing I want to do, but my hearing trumps any band any day.
[/quote]


I'm surprised that even with earplugs your ears still suffer. Either you're not fitting them all the way in tight, or your band is amazingly loud. Sometimes in small bar gigs you may end up with your head right next to a speaker. If that happens, change it. I had that twice, and no more, years ago. I just refuse completely. There's always another way.

Regarding the volume in the bar... it is possible that you're trying to be too loud. I don't think the purpose of amplification is to drown the audience, especially a pub audience. You have to be loud, to create the atmosphere... but it's possible to overdo it. I see it quite regularly.

Your amp/cab seems perfectly ok for the gigs you describe. Even if you may not fill some bars with earthquake quality lows, you'll be heard clearly. Is the drum kit amplified? For that type of gigs I'd probably want it unamplified, except maybe the kick. And then the rest of the band turn up to match a drummer who doesn't hit the kit like it ran away with his girlfriend while pretending to be his best friend

For me it's very important to enjoy the music, and for that I need to hear what's going on with reasonable clarity. And without hurting my ears. If not, it's not the band for me.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Mattpt85' timestamp='1472042140' post='3117923']
This does sound like the overall volume is way too loud.
I play in a noisy punk covers band with two guitarists churning out open/power chords (one on his bloody lead channel, but that's beside the point) and an 'enthusiastic' drummer.
Had various amp/cab combinations but never had volume past halfway
[/quote]


Offtopic: please change your avatar. It makes me want to get a bass just like it.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472065410' post='3118202']
If your not making your living from playing music you can quit anytime for any reason.

If playing in any band is your only source of income,you don't quit until you find another band that can pay you at the same level.

Blue
[/quote]

Not all musicians live on the breadline playing bar gigs, just like any job you can get to a point where carrying on isn't possible.

[mcnach]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472046259' post='3117977']
at a local pub venue with in house PA, the sound guy just turns up the guitar in the guitarists monitor when he wants him to turn down, (after he's asked him nicely) says it works everytime
[/quote]

ha!

in one band, after the guitarist kept ignoring my requests to turn down his 4x12 at rehearsals, I said "wait a minute", and turned the 4x12 to face HIM, and not the rest of the room. He strummed a chord and his face melted... he understood and turned down
Of course, next rehearsal it was all forgotten. This is one of the bands I quit due to volume.

[Lozz196]

I can`t envisage a band where a GK M500 isn`t enough - even if running through a not particularly efficient speaker cab. Don`t matter how noisy a crowd is, a band playing at relatively acceptable volumes will be louder. I don`t think I`d hang around, I`ve played in some bands before where we`ve had to be real loud, due to the drummer, and it`s not fun on the ears. I doubt I`d play in a similar band again.

[blue]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472072602' post='3118335']


Not all musicians live on the breadline playing bar gigs, just like any job you can get to a point where carrying on isn't possible.
[/quote]


Pete, do you personally know any musicians living on the " breadline" whatever that is, playing bar gigs? I'm interested because I don't.

I'm also slowly learning that the playing opportunities in the UK are quite different than in the States.

I'm maintaining my position.

Volume would not be a reason to quit a band. Bass players are always going to deal with volume issues in rock bands as long as there are still guitar players. No gigs, that would be a reason to quit.

Most won't quit their job until they have another. That's the way it is in the States and for many different reasons.

Remember most over here get their health insurance through their employer.

Oh, by the way, I don't eat bread. And I know several musicians with no work that would love a book of good paying bar band business.

I'm not sure bar and pub gigs are the same.Might be a good thread and discussion.

Keep in mind there is no negative connotation to bar gigs over here. We have national headliners that play bars over here.

We all can't sell out Wembley.

Blue

Edited August 25, 2016 by blue

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472075798' post='3118395']



Pete, do you personally know any musicians living on the " breadline" whatever that is, playing bar gigs? I'm interested because I don't.

I'm also slowly learning that the playing opportunities in the UK are quite different than in the States.

I'm maintaining my position.

Volume would not be a reason to quit a band. Bass players are always going to deal with volume issues in rock bands as long as there are still guitar players. No gigs, that would be a reason to quit.

Most won't quit their job until they have another. That's the way it is in the States and for many different reasons.

Remember most over here get their health insurance through their employer.

Oh, by the way, I don't eat bread. And I know several musicians with no work that would love a book of good paying bar band business.

I'm not sure bar and pub gigs are the same.Might be a good thread and discussion.

Keep in mind there is no negative connotation to bar gigs over here. We have national headliners that play bars over here.

We all can't sell out Wembley.

Blue
[/quote]

You constantly tell us you have to gig to survive, we call that living on the bread line in the UK, it stops you having the luxury of being able to walk away from a job you hate until you have another.

I know of lots of professional players that have earnt enough money that they have a financial buffer to not need to take any old gig, one is a member here who is on a retainer that gives him enough money for the whole year before he leaves his house (which is paid for) the function gigs, dep gigs and anything else is as you would say in the states, gravy.

I'm not criticising your situation, just trying to make you understand there is more than one position you can be in financially, The type of profession is not important either, my wife works in a cafe,some people there will spend this week's wages on food and rent, missing a week will cause them money troubles, my wife could afford to walk out and wait for another job to come in as long as I'm working and still be able to live fairly comfortably.

[Trueno]

Actually, I have known band members living on the breadline in the UK. One of the reasons I quit the band, because they would do any gig just to get some money, whereas I had a full time job and couldn't gig up to four times a week. They were also fiddling their benefits, which I was uneasy with.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472075798' post='3118395']
I'm not sure bar and pub gigs are the same.Might be a good thread and discussion.
[/quote]

I agree.

I would also extend that particular discussion to cover the big differences in how bands are enjoyed in every country, not just yours and mine. I have an eye on Europe. Germany being one of the time honoured places where work used to be plentiful for small bands.

Imagine how it'd be to do some of the beer festivals.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Trueno' timestamp='1472111777' post='3118516']
Actually, I have known band members living on the breadline in the UK. One of the reasons I quit the band, because they would do any gig just to get some money, whereas I had a full time job and couldn't gig up to four times a week. They were also fiddling their benefits, which I was uneasy with.
[/quote]

Oh I know both situations exist, I was just pointing out that not every pro even at the lower levels are in blue's situation.

[ubit]

Our drummer , whilst not being on the bread line, has a pretty poorly paid job. He gigs as much as he can to help with cash. I can do without the playing money, but I enjoy playing and like getting extra beer money. I can't understand where the argument comes from

[Mattpt85]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1472072569' post='3118333']


Offtopic: please change your avatar. It makes me want to get a bass just like it.
[/quote]

Done!

[rushbo]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472075798' post='3118395']


Volume would not be a reason to quit a band. Bass players are always going to deal with volume issues in rock bands as long as there are still guitar players. No gigs, that would be a reason to quit.

[/quote]

I would say that putting your hearing at risk and having to deal with guitarists who consistently back pedal regarding volume and then refuse to moderate their stage levels are reasons to quit a band. If the band isn't the OPs sole/primary source of income then (in my opinion) he should walk.

Your hearing is precious and it sounds like the guitarists are consistently ignoring his views.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Mattpt85' timestamp='1472126694' post='3118717']
Done!
[/quote]


AAARGH!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1472126145' post='3118711']
Our drummer , whilst not being on the bread line, has a pretty poorly paid job. He gigs as much as he can to help with cash. I can do without the playing money, but I enjoy playing and like getting extra beer money. I can't understand where the argument comes from
[/quote]

I think you are getting two threads mixed up? The problem is of the volume of the band is always too loud not the on going playing for nowt thread, if I played on a band that only played for free that was too loud I'd leave.

[ahpook]

I wonder how Coilte got on ? It doesn't sound like it was going to be an easy chat to have...