what size kit does your drummer use/ sensible volume

[bassjim]

So.....very cool guy on drums in my regular band.......

In the interest of keeping the overall band volume sensible, especially in small pubs, he uses hot rods. It keeps the kit noise down= keeps the band volume good= can hear vocals really well= good balance= constant good feedback from punters and venue/pub owners= busy pub= call back.

In the situations when it needs more welly he uses normal sticks and if its a bigun' its miked up.

The majority of venues dont want this wall of sound thing and the smaller places are really happy with what we do.

But........its not great for our poor drummer. He's now probably one of the best hot rod players around but I know it gets to him.

I'm wondering if a smaller kit is the answer but not being a drummer have no idea. Iv'e plenty of experience in the past playing with a loud bastard and if its not rock type stuff it kills the gig cause it forces every ones volume up to the point its all a mess.

So in essence, all you weekend warriors that like me are out doing the cover band thing, does your drummer "get it" and has a good solution in place or is my drummer just a one of a kind shinning star?

[cheddatom]

I play drums in a few bands. Drumming well, with the right feel, at low volume, was a big struggle for me for years. I think I've got there now. IME it's got nothing to do with the size of the drums. Actually I don't find hotrods any quieter, although I guess you do get less attack from the cymbals which will help. I've just gotten used to playing quietly, and I use huge sticks.

[chris_b]

IMO it's not the size of the kit or the make that is the difference but the player.

If your guy doesn't like rods he'll have to play sticks quieter. If he can't do that then, sorry, he's not as good as you think.

[Muzz]

I play with a variety of dep drummers, and the very good ones have all the gears, and a great sense of dynamics, not just within a song or set, but to the venue/environment as well. The very good ones don't need a smaller kit or different sticks to do this.

[TrevorR]

As others have said, it's not about size of kit, it's about control and the ability to play with dynamics as required for both the song and the room. I've been very lucky always to have played with drummers who have been able to do this. I recall seeing a seminar with Mark Richardson from Skunk Anansie once where he demonstrated the keys of dynamic control. He played a series of snare hits from only just audibly quiet to excruciatingly loud from a relaxed sitting position with almost no visually noticable difference in his physical movements. All just from minimal elbow and wrist movements... That's control!

Edited August 25, 2016 by TrevorR

[bassjim]

Thanks for replies so far. I intend to pass on any constructive tips that may help him out. If its down to learning how to play quietly with sticks he will take it on board. Id rather it came from a source of fact rather than any guessing

[cheddatom]

I don't know if this helps, but I didn't really get to grips with this until I started playing without ear-plugs. I still wear them at gigs as it's essential (for most anyway) but practising without them really helped me keep the volume down, especially on the crash cymbals

[cheddatom]

also, if the drum isn't well tuned, it won't be very responsive, and you might be tempted to hit them harder to get a sound out of it

[Dad3353]

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[stingrayPete1977]

I've heard loud drummers with small kits,quiet drummers with large kits, loud drummers with large kits and quiet drummers with small kits.

[bassjim]

so................ its all his own fault and he has no one to blame but himself ! I'll tell him. He is the kind of guy to go "ok. will work on that"

[stingrayPete1977]

I think so yes, even a child's Mickey mouse kit would be loud if hit hard enough wouldn't it?

[cheddatom]

basically, yeh, he just needs to play to the overall mix, there should be no need for hot-rods

...but like I say it did take me a long time to feel confident playing quieter

Edited August 25, 2016 by cheddatom

[Dad3353]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1472134079' post='3118784']
so................ its all his own fault and he has no one to blame but himself ! I'll tell him. He is the kind of guy to go "ok. will work on that"
[/quote]

So, what's the beef..? He's good with rods (that's a Good Thing...),and wants to use sticks, but with better technique concerning dynamics..? Isn't that just what most of the posts above are suggesting that he do..? I'd have thought that that's a Good Thing, too. Another solution is to muffle the drums (I've used elasticated flannel pillow cases, for instance...), but cymbals are more delicate, as the thinner, less 'noisy' ones will break anyway if they're beaten too hard. No, the real answer, whatever the kit, is stick control. If he's already a good drummer, it won't be hard to adopt another approach, and it's very interesting to get into, but it does take Work (Ok, a four-letter word for some...). That's not insulting the bloke; quite the opposite. If he's worth it, he'll take on board any of these (suitably worded...) suggestions, I'd have thought. No need to bash the fellow, just a reasonable amount of human diplomacy. Maybe this is the wrong forum for that, though..?

[Cat Burrito]

My Dad was a pro drummer in the 60s and the saying used to be the less drums the greater the talent. I don't work with any drummer who uses more than a max of a 5 piece kit and certainly brushes, rods and sticks for variety.

My old 90s band did a reunion in 2011 and I'd forgotten the drummer was Keith Moon like. I had ringing ears for days. It's impressive but a bit one trick for my tastes these days.

[bassjim]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1472137457' post='3118821']
So, what's the beef..? He's good with rods (that's a Good Thing...),and wants to use sticks, but with better technique concerning dynamics..? Isn't that just what most of the posts above are suggesting that he do..? I'd have thought that that's a Good Thing, too. Another solution is to muffle the drums (I've used elasticated flannel pillow cases, for instance...), but cymbals are more delicate, as the thinner, less 'noisy' ones will break anyway if they're beaten too hard. No, the real answer, whatever the kit, is stick control. If he's already a good drummer, it won't be hard to adopt another approach, and it's very interesting to get into, but it does take Work (Ok, a four-letter word for some...). That's not insulting the bloke; quite the opposite. If he's worth it, he'll take on board any of these (suitably worded...) suggestions, I'd have thought. No need to bash the fellow, just a reasonable amount of human diplomacy. Maybe this is the wrong forum for that, though..?
[/quote]Defo not bashing him...that was just in jest !!!! He's more of a find a solution and go with that than sulk about it. I just didnt want to do the old "what I think you need to do is...or what other people do is." without any research. I think he already has a good idea its all about technique and every ones comments here reinforce that. He can do a gig on hot rods so we have a working model there, but if there are any other ways round it someone would have said so. It just means I can say "lets try a batch of tunes we play all the time over the next run of gigs with the sticks and get practicing this technique as much as we can going forward. Id rather have him getting better and better than holding him back with the hotrods. We can use the hotrods as a safe area so to speak.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1472141042' post='3118847']
Defo not bashing him...that was just in jest !!!!...
[/quote]

Glad to hear that..!
He'll very likely need to do some 'wood-shedding', just the same, preferably on rudiments and stick control/accentuation (as referenced with the books, above ^...). It's not the kind of technique that just 'comes' in rehearsals with other folks, unless you've all a few days to spend..? Even just a snare, or practise pad (even a cushion, or pillow..?) will do, but a bit of time each day, conscientiously going over the exercises will reap enormous reward. How do I know this..? Hmm...

[stingrayPete1977]

Imagine if he started a thread on Drum Chat "bass player is too loud, what size amp should he use?", I imagine the answer would be "one with a volume knob", with acoustic instruments the player is the volume knob.

[JTUK]

I'd say 22" is typical but most drummers will be able to tailor any kit or kits to the gig...they'll ask what is expected and know the band.
Personally I expect the drums to gear up properly and respectfully.

Does depend on the gig a lot tho

[scalpy]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1472123433' post='3118682']
also, if the drum isn't well tuned, it won't be very responsive, and you might be tempted to hit them harder to get a sound out of it
[/quote]

So true. We eq for the room, drummers need to tune for the band. For me personally, cymbals are often the biggest volume problem too, washy ride cymbals and over hit crashes drilling through everyone's hearing.

[Dood]

I played with a very talented drummer for many years. He had a beautiful and massive gleaming white kit that sounded amazing. What was even better is that he knew what construction of kit would give an amazing sound but was actually quieter than a standard 'live' kit. His choices of heads and cymbals meant that he wasn't over powering the mix, but also when we balanced our on stage volume, it was never deafening. His technique was superb too and would have no problems controlling his volume around the kit either.

Come to think of it, my current drummers(s) are amazing too!

[cheddatom]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1472160855' post='3119077']
So true. We eq for the room, drummers need to tune for the band. For me personally, cymbals are often the biggest volume problem too, washy ride cymbals and over hit crashes drilling through everyone's hearing.
[/quote]

Yes, definitely. Getting used to playing the drums quieter was fairly straightforward for me, although it took a lot of practise. Getting used to playing the crash cymbal quieter was very, very difficult. Smaller and thinner crashes help, as you can get more response without whacking it

[bassjim]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472141594' post='3118852']
Imagine if he started a thread on Drum Chat "bass player is too loud, what size amp should he use?", I imagine the answer would be "one with a volume knob", with acoustic instruments the player is the volume knob.
[/quote] Best answer so far.

[MoonBassAlpha]

Yes, the drummer often is the knob.
Surprised Discreet hasn't popped up to point this out!

[stingrayPete1977]

I resisted a knob gag or Dum chat