Guitars for children

[Geek99]

No, I'm not attempting to trade in my kids for a nice jazz bass

Can anyone who has had a seven year old (medium size) take up guitar at school advise whether it should be nylon, steel or other , and what size body I should look for ?

Thanks

[dlloyd]

Seven... you've left it too late...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSedE5sU3uc[/media]

[Dood]

There are some truly horrible 'children guitars' on the market. It seems that 3/4 sized guitars usually have 3/4 of the amount of time and effort spent on them to make them good.

Nylon strings are usually kinder to small hands but, most Nylon strung guitars have much wider necks, so little hands will struggle anyway. I learned when I was around that age on a steel strung and I was fine, so I'd recommend the slimmer neck over the wider with the nylon strings.

If you can't find a smaller guitar that plays very well, your next option I suppose is a full size - but go for a semi-acoustic, as they often have thinner bodies and sometimes bowl backs which mean smaller frames can reach over. Also, the 'Parlour' body sized guitar is much smaller than the Dreadnought or Jumbo body of a 'full on' acoustic guitar.

I suppose there's the smaller size guitar such as the Martin 'Ed Sheeran' guitar which is downsized. Quite a nice little machine.

Also, go with well known brands to begin with. Yamaha etc etc. I'm currently playing Faith acoustics and they are really nice.

[Dood]

Oh and on the subject of steel strung - make sure the action is nice and low, especially check the nut height. Too high and I guarantee Barre chords on the lower frets are going to be a nightmare for small hands.

My last bit of advice is to take a good guitarist or teacher with you when you got to select one as they *should* spot all of these things quickly.

[josie]

Definitely guitar and not ukelele? I got my 3yo grandson a professional quality ukelele 2nd hand for £35 - not much more than the cost of a horrid "children's" one new - and he can already get a nice sound from it, and loves it. They can actually be played as small guitars.
[attachment=226604:IMG_B2.jpg]

[Geek99]

It's lessons at school so uke not a choice

Thanks @dood
I will take a trip to pmt Nottingham when it finally opens

[backwater]

My suggestion would be to get a folk-style guitar - these are full scale but with a smaller body. Fender do a basic one at around the £100 mark : [url="http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/fender-cf-60-folk-acoustic-guitar-natural"]http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/fender-cf-60-folk-acoustic-guitar-natural[/url]

Andy

[leftybassman392]

You'll quite likely find that the school and/or the tutor will insist on a nylon strung instrument for a child that age. I could bore you with a whole bunch of technical reasons why if you like, but it's your money I guess.

It will be a 3/4 size at best, possibly even a 1/2 size if the child is small for their age.

AFAIK the Ed Sheeran and others of it's ilk are small-bodied parlour guitars; the necks will most likely be pretty much standard dimensions. Not suitable at all IMHPO unless the landscape has changed dramatically in the few years since I quit teaching guitar..

A good question to ask in this situation is this: do you want your child to look cool with a swish guitar to show off to the other 7-year olds, or do you want to give them the best chance of learning to play it properly?

Edited August 29, 2016 by leftybassman392

[Geek99]

[quote name='backwater' timestamp='1472454823' post='3121138']
My suggestion would be to get a folk-style guitar - these are full scale but with a smaller body. Fender do a basic one at around the £100 mark : [url="http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/fender-cf-60-folk-acoustic-guitar-natural"]http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/fender-cf-60-folk-acoustic-guitar-natural[/url]

Andy
[/quote]
That's an interesting thought, thanks

It's got to be easy to play

[Barking Spiders]

My 9 year old daughter is quite small for her age but preferred a full size nylon strung to a 3/4. I got it for £70, not much more than the 3/4 and better in all ways.

[darkandrew]

[quote name='josie' timestamp='1472434147' post='3121106']
Definitely guitar and not ukelele? I got my 3yo grandson a professional quality ukelele 2nd hand for £35 - not much more than the cost of a horrid "children's" one new - and he can already get a nice sound from it, and loves it. They can actually be played as small guitars.
[attachment=226604:IMG_B2.jpg]
[/quote]

Don't forget though that ukuleles are not tuned from low to high, as guitars and basses are, and may need to be unlearned if you progress to other stringed instruments later.

Edited August 30, 2016 by darkandrew

[Geek99]

Sure - she's not a sticker at tricky things so what "really works well" is more important than cosmetics

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1472559353' post='3122077']
Sure - she's not a sticker at tricky things so what "really works well" is more important than cosmetics
[/quote]
If you can manage to, it would be a good idea to take her to a shop to try them out. I've taught lots of 7/8 year olds, and IME a full size board is invariably too big for small hands (and as a 'by the way', causes more kids to quit than any other single reason). Sounds like a 1/2 size will be too small; most likely a 3/4 will be the one to go for.

Don't worry about quality issues either; think of it as a stepping stone - if she takes to it then you can move up to a full size when she's grown a bit, and if she doesn't then the school or the tutor should have no trouble helping you to sell it on and get a fair chunk of your money back. Sorry to press the point but buying a full size guitar that she can 'grow into' is just wrong I'm afraid - it may work once in a while but generally speaking it causes more problems than it solves. If the tutor works for the local music service (very likely), then there will often be a policy in place that dictates the type of instrument they recommend. If in doubt ask the school; if they can't help then they should be able to put you in touch with the music service for your area.

Edited August 30, 2016 by leftybassman392

[Geek99]

Intending to go to pmt Nottingham when it opens but thanks for the other insights

[dannybuoy]

I would buy them this!

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/290133-ibanez-mikro

[Geek99]

Went to pmt in brum and bought a linden 3/4 classical as it had a fairly narrow board, sadly they only had blue

Won't stay in tune - new strings needed perhaps

[RhysP]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1473021777' post='3126209']
Went to pmt in brum and bought a linden 3/4 classical as it had a fairly narrow board, sadly they only had blue

Won't stay in tune - new strings needed perhaps
[/quote]

Most cheap children's sized guitars are pretty terrible at staying in tune. The fretting is usually pretty inaccurate as well so playing a chord that sounds in tune is difficult even if the guitar is "in tune"
I went through a lot of different small sized guitars looking for one for my step daughter many years ago. They were all sh*te. I was really glad that she decided not to carry on with it.

[Dood]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1473021777' post='3126209']
Won't stay in tune - new strings needed perhaps
[/quote]

Really sorry to hear that - it was my worry with going with a 3/4 size guitar RhysP said it more eloquently than I. It's not limited to steel strung either. Nylons can be pretty rubbish in the same price bracket. My recommendations for something like a baby Martin (which unlike the suggestion above) is actually a shorter scale guitar and also built by a very reputable company. A bit of extra expense, but 'small guitars' that play well are in the minority. Thus my thoughts about going for a full size electric or skinny electro' are still viable ones. I'm teaching some small students right now and as I'd said earlier one is ripping up a full size strat. Oh and 3/4 electrics are awful too.

[Dood]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1472566374' post='3122162']
If you can manage to, it would be a good idea to take her to a shop to try them out. I've taught lots of 7/8 year olds, and IME a full size board is invariably too big for small hands (and as a 'by the way', causes more kids to quit than any other single reason). Sounds like a 1/2 size will be too small; most likely a 3/4 will be the one to go for.
[/quote]

I'd say a rubbish playing guitar has put off more students. I've seen 8 years olds tackling a 34" bass because it was easy to play.

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1472566374' post='3122162']
Don't worry about quality issues either; think of it as a stepping stone - if she takes to it then you can move up to a full size when she's grown a bit, and if she doesn't then the school or the tutor should have no trouble helping you to sell it on and get a fair chunk of your money back. Sorry to press the point but buying a full size guitar that she can 'grow into' is just wrong I'm afraid - it may work once in a while but generally speaking it causes more problems than it solves. If the tutor works for the local music service (very likely), then there will often be a policy in place that dictates the type of instrument they recommend. If in doubt ask the school; if they can't help then they should be able to put you in touch with the music service for your area.
[/quote]

I'd say that quality issues have put more students off playing a guitar. If a teacher is actually worth their salt, then they will know how to help a student tackle chord shapes on a larger guitar, but there's no way they'll fix it on a guitar with an action you can drive a car under, intonation or badly cut nut.

The problem here is that 3/4 guitars, for the same money as a cheap full size, generally suck. It'd be great to recommend an instrument that is the right size, but most parent's budget won't stretch to something of comparable quality that is of a smaller size. Nylon stringers in the lower price brackets are usually the worst offenders.

So you either shop blind for a 3/4 instrument that may not perform but is the right size, or go for a better known brand that produces a larger instrument that you know won't have the issues that the lesser produced 3/4's do. Yes, they do come in cut down body sizes too, especially 'thin-line electro-acoustics.

I've never seen a music policy that states a particular instrument type. The music services don't have the budget to invest in seeking out what is a good or bad instrument. On speaking to them, they couldn't tell the difference between guitar types anyway. Have you seen some of the stuff at schools today? - No, it's usually down to the teacher themselves to make a judgement call on what to purchase and that's usually budget driven. - Not what type, how much they aren't allowed to spend.

[Geek99]

I'm hoping it will settle with tuning

I don't want to spend a fortune as it's likely a flash in the pan - if she sticks at it we will get her something better

[Geek99]

Independent school so no council policy to follow

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1473021777' post='3126209']
Won't stay in tune - new strings needed perhaps
[/quote]

Sorry for the late reply - on holiday ATM so not around the iPad too much right now

Sounds about right actually. New nylon strings take a while to settle down, so regular retuning is needed early on.: not much you can do about that I'm afraid. It will settle down after a while, but nylon strung guitars generally need more tuning adjustments than steel strung anyway - doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. Tutor should be routinely checking it at the start of every session anyway.

It is true that junior size instruments are not of the highest quality, but as I indicated earlier they're plenty good enough for your daughter's needs, and I any case it's unlikely to be a problem for a 7-year old if she takes to it then you can trade up and sell it on (impossible to say for sure without seeing the child, but 9 or 10 is a fairly typical age to start looking at a full size instrument). If she doesn't then you'll probably find out within a couple of months, and you can sell it on anyway and get some of your money back. I probably don't need to say it, but active support and encouragement from you will be a good thing too. While I'm here, keeping expectations within bounds is a big deal; if you do have any issues with progress, talk it over with the tutor. Getting the balance right is quite a tough ask in this area.

Tutors can get a bit territorial about this kind of thing (I can only give you my thoughts based on my personal experience of teaching very young students over a period of years), so if you'll forgive me I won't enter into that kind of debate (which is not the same as saying I don't have an opinion about it of course...). The child's needs are paramount, and everything you, the school and the tutor do should be serving those needs. All children are different, and beyond the basic principles of good teaching there is no 'one size fits all'.

[Geek99]

Thanks - showed her a d chord and very basic explanation of a chord using my 12 to show the chord

[leftybassman392]

Just one more thing before I go: in state schools the local music service generally rules the roost in peri tuition, and they tend to lay down the law to their tutors as to curriculum (if that sounds a bit 'schooly' it's because it is, but it's how it generally gets done). In a private school things tend to be a bit more open and down to the music teacher (who is never, ever a guitarist!), IME they have a habit of leaving it to the tutor and checking in with them from time to time. Might pay you to see if you can get a bit of a chat with said tutor to see what (s)he has in mind for your daughter - if they're familiar with music service methods then they'll most likely have her working from one of a number of standard textbooks - which won't include chords by the way . If they're not then it could be almost anything . Better hope the tutor isn't a death metal fan I guess...