String gauge/tension - help!

[scrumpymike]

I'm nearer to the end of my bass-playing life than the beginning and am having to find ways of 'playing round' some specific physical issues plus general bodily wear and tear. Deciding that I needed well-balanced, light-weight, properly set-up short-scale basses was the easy bit, and that's what I've done - but I can't get my head round where I should be going string-wise. I've actually changed my basses over to D'Addario EXL220S (040/060/075/095" super-light nickel rounds) for the lower tension - but I now understand that the greater vibrating amplitude of the thinner strings calls for a higher action to avoid fret buzz. So would I be better looking for some standard-gauge, low-tension strings - or would the wobbliness that presumably comes with the lower tension still require extra string height? There are sooo many variables to this string choice thing that I just don't get it! Given that both time and money are in limited supply nowadays, any advice (preferably based on experience) would be appreciated.

[markstuk]

Try some DR low riders if you want some extra tension (less compliance technically :-) ) - just put them on my Jazz 5 and made a noticeable difference from the existing Hi-Beams..

Edited September 1, 2016 by markstuk

[scrumpymike]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1472727505' post='3123680']
Try some DR low riders if you want some extra tension (less compliance technically :-) ) - just put them on my Jazz 5 and made a noticeable difference from the existing Hi-Beams..
[/quote]
Problem is I don't know if extra tension/lower action is what I need - I'm just trying to understand what will require least effort/input from my hands/fingers while still producing an acceptable sound in a general covers band. I'm guessing the DR Low Riders allow for a super-low action that's very fast - but is it easy too?

[markstuk]

Sorry, I did not read your original post properly... The lack of tension you're looking results in the amplitude being greater as you described.. You could not dig in as much, but that's going to affect your tone..

[hubrad]

Sadly, low tension does tend to lead to easier rattle; you can possibly educate yourself to play more lightly.
Another (IMHO better) possibility is to stay with normal tension and have the bass set up better. I sometimes get to play with Gary Boyle, who's a stupendous guitarist but uses 14 gauge strings on an electric! No rattle, and a feather light setup - you can't get a credit card under his strings.
A good setup is a wondrous thing!

[scrumpymike]

Agreed hubrad - I get my basses set up by a professional luthier and have no reason to believe he doesn't do a good job.

[Danuman]

I suppose you've run into some issues with your current strings?

I've been using d'addario's 220BT balanced tension sets for quite some time. The set strikes a nice middle ground between the strings, which allows for easy fretting. I'm just terribly lazy when it comes to the mechanical side of playing. Some others might call it economy of movement. 😜

I haven't had any problems running the action very low, but the bass I'm referring to has quite a stiff neck and I did level the frets. A good setup will work wonders.

Good luck!

[scrumpymike]

Hi Danuman, only problem with current strings is high action due to light gauge. I guess I'm looking for the best compromise between string tension and height.

[zero9]

Light gauge low tension strings are more difficult to control and require a light touch to avoid 'rattle' etc.

In my experience, a good compromise is using heavier strings 105's, and keeping the action as low as you can get it. The heavier tension is more likely to avoid 'rattle'. The KEY however is to get your neck relief to be virtually zero or as minimal as you can get. I'm assuming that luthier has dressed the frets to ensure these are perfectly level.

My basses are set up with virtually no relief and super low action. I can get this to work with most gauges of string, although the thinner lower tension gauges are definitely 'more sensitive'. If you are able to play with a lighter touch, you'll need more volume to compensate for the fact you can't dig in as much. Technique will play an important part in achieving the overall result.

[HowieBass]

Is the problem more with your fretting hand than the plucking/picking hand? If this is the case then I think you need to get the action as low as possible. As for where you strike the strings; compliance/perceived tension varies not only with string gauge but also where you pluck the string so you might need to experiment with hand placement (which is why it's often better to play a low B nearer the bridge if it feels too flabby nearer the neck).

[Danuman]

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1472752271' post='3123949']
Hi Danuman, only problem with current strings is high action due to light gauge. I guess I'm looking for the best compromise between string tension and height.
[/quote]

Hi Mike, do you mean you can't get the action low enough for your liking before rattling becomes an issue?

Some others have mentioned neck relief and that really is key. It's easy enough to check for that yourself, so I suppose you could sort that out quickly. If you notice buzzing at some places on the neck more than others, you'll know some work on the frets is needed.

In my experience, proper neck relief and nicely leveled frets allow for a whole lot of wiggle room at the bridge before buzzing or rattling starts to become a problem.

Hope that helps and I'm not unduly making any obvious suggestions... If you're a particularly heavy player, you can always try to find ways to acknowledge and accept that. 😜

Kidding, you'll make it work!

[xroads]

[quote name='Danuman' timestamp='1472771599' post='3124222']
Hi Mike, do you mean you can't get the action low enough for your liking before rattling becomes an issue?

Some others have mentioned neck relief and that really is key. It's easy enough to check for that yourself, so I suppose you could sort that out quickly. If you notice buzzing at some places on the neck more than others, you'll know some work on the frets is needed.

In my experience, proper neck relief and nicely leveled frets allow for a whole lot of wiggle room at the bridge before buzzing or rattling starts to become a problem.

Hope that helps and I'm not unduly making any obvious suggestions... If you're a particularly heavy player, you can always try to find ways to acknowledge and accept that.

Kidding, you'll make it work!
[/quote]

Agreed - neck relief is, apart from light right hand technique, key.
If your neck is bowing too much, then the perceived string tension is quite high, as you need to press down the strings much more with your left hand when fretting.
This, at least in my case, leads to left hand fatique. I usually prefer to have a straight neck, with only a little relief, with a little larger string height at the saddles,
to a lower string height but more bow in the neck.

[scrumpymike]

Thanks guys, I'm pretty light with the right hand as it happens. It's not that I'm really struggling with my playing, just that a) I want to push back the day when it does become a struggle (and the playing quality suffers) and I'm questioning whether my decision to go for ultra-light-gauge strings was the right one. Apart from anything else, fatter strings = fatter sounds - and we LUUURVE those

[HowieBass]

I'm not saying that playing bass is a guaranteed way to increase hand/grip strength but to my mind if you keep exercising your fingers it can't be a bad thing - my mum and my sister can't open a vacuum cleaner to empty the thing whereas for me it's simple (it's a poorly designed Zanussi thing my mum bought). Yes, I'm a few years younger than my sister but I was surprised at her lack of strength (I'm now aged 60 and as thin as a rake) so I wonder if bass playing has helped rather than hindered me. The one area where age seems to take its toll is with our backs - from the points of view of having heavy basses strapped to us and shifting around bass amps/cabs/combos. I reckon you've already done as much as you need to regarding instrument selection and just follow the advice of 'let the amp do the work' when it comes to playing.

[scrumpymike]

That's generally true Howie but my problems come from a bike accident 30 years ago that is now giving me nerve compression issues causing weakness and loss of feeling in my hands.

[naxos10]

Hi Mike,

Just fitted a set of Newtone 45-105 Platinum Nickel strings with a hexagonal core to my SWB-1 and find the string tension 'right'. They do not take a great amount of hand/finger effort to move them to get volume or attack and seem easier on the hands than the GHS strings Scott supplied as standard. ACG also use Newtones in a 90-110 gauge and these also feel right on the ACG short scale I have.
You could ring and have a chat to Neil a Newtone as they can produce custom strings that may suit your requirements.

[Trueno]

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1472821565' post='3124535']
That's generally true Howie but my problems come from a bike accident 30 years ago that is now giving me nerve compression issues causing weakness and loss of feeling in my hands.
[/quote]

I have a similar problem.

Here's a completely different take... I've played fretless for long time because I've found it easier to "fret" the notes. Played in different types of band including usual rock covers and never had any issues. I've never gone for a typical fretless sound (mwahh or whatever) but I just play the damn thing and evolved my own slippy slidey light-fingered style.

[scrumpymike]

Funny you should say that Trueno - I recently tried exactly that with a fretless SWB-1 strung with flats (no 'mwah' for me either) but didn't stick with it and moved the bass on. I realised that if I persevered it might work out but I just wasn't sure and decided against introducing another variable into the mix. That's interesting feedback though and glad to hear it's working for you.

[Trueno]

... Cheers. Hope you find a workable solution.

[scrumpymike]

[quote name='naxos10' timestamp='1472823021' post='3124550']
Hi Mike,

Just fitted a set of Newtone 45-105 Platinum Nickel strings with a hexagonal core to my SWB-1 and find the string tension 'right'. They do not take a great amount of hand/finger effort to move them to get volume or attack and seem easier on the hands than the GHS strings Scott supplied as standard. ACG also use Newtones in a 90-110 gauge and these also feel right on the ACG short scale I have.
You could ring and have a chat to Neil a Newtone as they can produce custom strings that may suit your requirements.
[/quote]
Thanks for that Naxos10 - sorry I missed it earlier. I've heard good stuff about Newtone so I'll give Neil a ring. Have you managed to get a nice low action set up on your SWB-1?

Cheers,
Mike

[only4]

I'm in a similar position and have found DAddario EXL170S Short Scale Bass set (45-100) to be a good solution, slightly more tension than the super lights but still easy to manage.

[grandad]

Just tried a change of strings on my Mustang. I was ok with Rotosound RS77M, (40 50 75 90) but discovered that La Bella make a set specifically for the Mustang, 760F-MUS, (43 60 82 104), so coughed up £44.99. The La Bella have a longer silk on the ball end to accomadate the string-through body.

The tension to me seemed lower. I recall that tension depends on length, gauge and core string material. Anyway having failed to achieve a decent setup it's now with a Luthier. The difference in tension was quite apparent and initially I felt uncomfortable with the new "feel" of the instrument.

The question of string tension has never really cropped up with me before but this recent episode has illustrated just how important it is in getting it right. If I'm not happy with them I can go back to the Roto's.

This question of which are the right strings for you and the particular instrument is an expensive minefield.

Edited September 3, 2016 by grandad

[naxos10]

Hi Mike, the string action is still set as it was supplied so looking for a local luthier.

[scrumpymike]

Hi again Naxos. Phoned Neil at Newtone yesterday for a chat. His suggestion is to make me a set of medium-light nickel rounds with a thinner-than-standard round core. I told him that I'm looking for another bass and I'd get back to him for the strings then rather than reverse the light-gauge set-up on one of my current gigging basses.

What an incredibly helpful guy!

[naxos10]

Have you got a particular bass in mind Mike?