MacDaddy Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1472897475' post='3125147'] Rehearsals are an absolute nightmare; he's so blinkered, frustrating and unproductive, but by and large when we gig, generally he does seem to be able to pull things together, but again we're subject to the same ups/downs and lack of dynacism. Literally, just going through the numbers. MacDaddy saw us a couple of weeks ago...his opinion might be useful here if he's willing to chip in. [/quote] You rang? Yup MacWifey and I were at the gig mentioned in the OP. Didn't see the soundcheck with the other drummer, but enjoyed the gig. Didn't notice any drumming timing issues or cockups, none of the songs seemed to be too fast, or to be dragging. Is being late to gigs a regular thing? Its easy to say get rid of him, but drummers seem to be in short supply. Most drummers I know play in 2 or 3 bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 How does the current guy gel with the rest of the band? Bands are about what all of the members bring to the table, change one member and you change the whole band and if it is a band that gets on well as a unit sometimes bringing in an "outsider" does not improve the band. My old covers band had an inexperienced drummer who developed as the band went on but was never going to be viewed as an excellent drummer, he took a year out as he had got to the point where he wanted to do other things, we brought in a far more experienced drummer who on paper should have made us sound so much tighter but, it changed the ethos of the band, we weren't the same team anymore, when the original drummer announced he was missing us and wanted to come back, it was an easy decision to make and the balance of the band was restored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbass Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Love drummer tales. An old guy joined a mixed covers band I was in..played every tune four on the floor disco style...reggae, funk, rock, ballads...lol..it was bloomin hilarious!.....one day I kinda looked at him with one of those looks bass players dish out now and again...end of the song he turns around and says ..."I guess you guys dont like my style much"...well mate its like this, never saw him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted September 4, 2016 Author Share Posted September 4, 2016 In answer to Roger2611, I'll be straight and say he's a lovely bloke and would say that on a friend only basis, we'd all get on with him famously. To reply to MacDaddy, his comment supports mine in as much as things seem to come together for gigs, although there's a great chasm (my favourite word at the moment) in ability in comparison to every band we've played with. Interestingly, the last 24 hours have proved quite cathartic, almost therapeutical. Rather than bottling it all up and getting angsty, the matter is out there and being discussed openly between the rest of the band, plus the guy I'd like to get in is clearly chomping at the bit to come and play with us. Just need to get him fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 [quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1472891267' post='3125043'] Oft said but- you're only as good as your drummer. [/quote] End of discussion for me. This is the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 (edited) [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1472887428' post='3124998'] Suggestions? [/quote] If this is a money making band with a lot of gigs you might want to have a heart to heart talk with the vocalist about replacing the drummer. However, you won't want to make a move until you have a new competent drummer in place ready to commit. If it's more of a for fun hobby band, I would try working with your current drummer. Blue Edited September 6, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Good time, good feel and good groove.. You can't be a good band without those. It doesn't matter how you get on with him. As long as he does what he supposed to do, but then he is in. I don't get this mates thing but then I take it rather seriously as in do it well (as good as you can) or don't do it at all. There are ways you deal with these things if the guy deserves it, but I don't see this issue going away without a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1472888064' post='3125000'] Have you recorded him playing at a rehearsal? Always an interesting experience.. [/quote] Surprised that no one else has picked up on this ... it really IS the answer. A band can argue until they're blue in the face about how they sound and how well/badly they're playing, but you can't argue with an mp3. Record his next rehearsal (if he's allowed another one) and TELL him you're doing it. No ambushes. Tell him you will be circulating the mp3 to the band for their [i]critique [/i]and watch what happens ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) The vocalist records everything. Everything! I've been at breaking point for a while, the guitarist (who has only been in the band for a couple of months) is more vehement than me. Tipping point for both of us came after the singer circulated some of the 'better' recordings from last week. Edited September 5, 2016 by NancyJohnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 You've got agreement in the band and a better player on the bench. What's keeping you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1473065666' post='3126448'] The vocalist records everything. Everything! I've been at breaking point for a while, the guitarist (who has only been in the band for a couple of months) is more vehement than me. Tipping point for both of us came after the singer circulated some of the 'better' recordings from last week. [/quote] GAME OVER INSERT NEW COIN READY PLAYER ONE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) So easy to suggest the "get rid" but harder to put in place. Band relationships can sometimes feel like being in an abusive and or disfunctional relationship. Its like binning a girlfriend/boyfriend/partner you dont want to have sex with anymore cause you just dont fancy them any longer. Doesnt mean you want them dead you just want them out of your life. Its not the sacking of a band member that worries any one its the fall out after.....will they turn up and make trouble? If the guy is cool then you can and should tell him honestly. : sorry man but you don't have what we as a band need and this guy over here does. The hard truth is either we all suffer for your benefit or you suffer for ours. We decided to take a punt on this new guy going forward and feel really bad about it but that's just how it has to be. If the guy is a bit of a psychopath then its very awkward. Personally though if this is the case and it were me I would leave the band, lie low with the new guy and wait for the others to follow. Give it a few months and start up a new. Edited September 6, 2016 by bassjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Man up, say it isn't working and it is a collective decision. If you think you owe him something, then you could tell why.... but only if this is solicited and constructive, IMO. Failing that, say it isn't him, it's you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1472997022' post='3125859'] ... he's a lovely bloke and would say that on a friend only basis, we'd all get on with him famously. [/quote] [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1473174108' post='3127676'] If the guy is a bit of a psychopath then its very awkward. [/quote] Well it didn't take long for "he's a lovely bloke" to get re-interpreted as "a bit of a psychopath". Do people actually [i][b]read [/b][/i]threads before jumping in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1473242729' post='3128223'] Well it didn't take long for "he's a lovely bloke" to get re-interpreted as "a bit of a psychopath". Do people actually [i][b]read [/b][/i]threads before jumping in? [/quote]he could be and could be reading this...... sorry should have read ....if it were a scenario where the guy is a ....then in that case..... just speaking from personal experiences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 A drummer who's a psychopath ... surely not? Bwahahahahaha!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Sounds like you already know what's going to happen, you just have to bite the bullet. There are any number of drummers who are 'lovely blokes', but don't confuse this with 'lovely blokes who can play the drums', they are rare and exotic animals. Keep the lovely bloke for social occasions and get the drummer who can play. As said above, if you don't have a good drummer then you don't have a band, it's that simple. I've wasted lots of time with lovely blokes who can't play, but [i]no more[/i]. If you want to cut it, you can't have any passengers, everyone has to be good. I would also make the point that it's often the drummer who gets the blame for bad timing - and of course a drummer [i]needs[/i] to have good timing - but timing and tempo are the responsibility of the entire band, not just the drummer. Edited September 7, 2016 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 The process is in motion. I know it all seems to be a round the houses process, but the guy knows that he's generally sub-par. It's a case now of just letting him down easily. We jammed last night and he had definitely upped his game a little, but while I'd say within fifteen minutes he was back to normal, as in terrible. We have a band WhatsApp group and it's kind of going off as I type this. Pictures at eleven, as they say in news speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I know a few players (not drummers) who know they're below par but never seem to improve. I find this really weird. If you know you're not very good, or not as good as your band requires, why are you not improving?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progben Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 My friend recently went through a similar thing with his own brother, who was the drummer. He had to get rid and the band are much better for it now. If the guy knows he's playing below par, you tell him he's out and then he throws his toys out of the pram, that should only reaffirm that you made 100% the right choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) It is remarkable how unaware some people can be. I play in an informal sax ensemble - we only meet once a month for a few hours. It is aimed at relatively new players. The group is quite mixed. Some are relatively new players who are keen to learn and in the 18 months we've been meeting, they have made tangible progress e.g. better timing and rhythm. One player who allegedly 'plays by ear' (specifically in his case I think that means 'can't be bothered to read') is all over the place. His timing is awful, his rhythm is dire, he has two dynamic levels: loud and not playing. I seem to have acquired the role of 'leading' this group. Every suggestion about dynamics, blend, listening to other parts is entirely lost. Last month he was away and the difference was immense. Unfortunately, because of the nature of this group, I can't throw him out, however much I would like to. In the case we have from the OP, the best suggestion is to record some rehearsals and make a point of critically reviewing the recording in rehearsal, asking members what they thought was 'good' and what they thought 'needed improvement'. Edited September 8, 2016 by zbd1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I got fired from a jazz band I was playing in, with good friends. They were all way ahead of me and still improving, whereas I'd hit a plateau in my playing and didn't do anything about it. The guy who replaced me was miles better, and made them sound complete as a band. I'm nearly over the rejection now, the first 30 years were the worst though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) It's all well and good giving someone the chance to improve, but there's something about drummers which seems to make them intractable. Drummers are either good or they're not. If you have the latter, it's a right royal pain in the arse having to tell them what it is you want them to do (and them never being able to do it) as opposed to the former, who naturally know what's needed and then get on with it. There's nothing better than working with a drummer that is just 'right'. It makes everything flow and you get a positive feedback loop. Working with a crap drummer is like swimming through molasses and I just can't do it any more! Edited September 8, 2016 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Just a little update here. Two of us in the band (me and the guitarist) had an issue to resolve in bringing the vocalist 100% round to getting shot of the drummer and it eventually came down to tape evidence(!) and finally coercing the singer into playing with another drummer (which we did earlier in the week and to quote a line from Star Trek Generations, 'It was like the joy was tangible.'). We had a very uncomfortable 60 minutes at rehearsal last night and told him he was toast. It was horrible really, but done now. I was a little amazed at the excuses he was giving to cover his decline (too many to go into here), but I suppose his defence mechanism simply kicked in at this stage. We have two gigs upcoming in the next week which he actually asked if he could do, so we agreed to that, afterwhich that's it. Just in closing, after we told him, he actually played a lot better, so it is certainly in him to play well, but he just slipped back into the usual after less than half hour. Anyhow, it's done. The End. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barking Spiders Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I speak as a drummist (as well as a bassist) but what about getting a drum machine instead, seriously? There've been a good number bands with guitarists, bassists and vocalist that used machines e.g. Sisters of Mercy, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry , Curve, Big Black, early Echo and the Bunnymen, Sunn 0)) and I believe quite a few speed metal bands use machines as mot drummers cant keep up. Purists may complain about lack of human touch but you can get that from the singers and guitarists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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