What's the point?

[Roger2611]

[color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]So, we played the Shed in Leicester last night, great little venue, great PA some fantastic artists and absolutely no crowd again....you have to wonder whether it is worthwhile, clearly bands / artistes playing new music are less attractive than a Saturday night in front of the television watching the next up and coming manufactured buy / girl band / whiny solo artiste with an acoustic guitar on Britain's got X Factor?[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]We have spent hundreds of hours writing, rehearsing to be[/size][/font][/color][color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]come the band we are, we get radio play and great reviews from the few that bother to come and see us.
It seems a waste of time inviting people to come to these things as invariably they don't turn up.
So, it was a waste of time for the venue, the promoter, the sound man and the bands, I assume at some point these venues will close, the promoters will stop, the bands won't have anywhere to play and people will be on here bemoaning the fact that there is no new music anymore.....rant over[/size][/font][/color]

[hrnn1234]

I get that we are artist with more or less commitment to pushing the boundaries and making interesting stuff. But the bottom line is that we are entertainment. We have to show/prove that we (our bands) are the better alternative for a saturday night.

For better or worst on a given night out most likely art will come second. It's in our best interest to put on a great show so people want to actualky spend time (and their money for the ticket eventually) at our gigs. The balance between those two things are bound by the ability or a creative decision I suppose.

And without any intention of pointing fingers, if the promoter didn't manage to bring a crowd then he probably did something wrong.

Still I think there is a point, at least if the absence of a crowd was the exception and not the norm. No matter how small the crowd is, the idea is to share what you created with people that can appreciate it. It's just a matter of choosing the right venues for your crowd.

[Funky Dunky]

People don't go out at weekends the way they used to.

[Roland Rock]

The Shed is an exception. We've played there three times and three times it has been a ghost town of a venue.
One was supporting a superb Ska covers band who were charging on the door - two paying punters turned up! They did a cracking full energy show to us four and that couple.
However, go to The Musician or The Donkey and you'll get heaving gigs with great atmosphere.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Roland Rock

[Thunderbird]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1472982134' post='3125692']
People don't go out at weekends the way they used to.
[/quote] This it is a sad fact but true I think most people stay in as pubs/clubs charge a lot for drinks so it is not a cheap night out like it used to be by the time you buy drinks and use taxi cabs if you live far from the venue and want to drink and also I think that the smoking ban has not helped. It is such a shame live venues are dying I think give it ten years and there will be hardly any proper old school pubs etc as they will close and more of the sh*tty Weatherspoon type pubs will pop up

[4stringslow]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1472979051' post='3125659']
We have spent hundreds of hours writing, rehearsing to become the band we are, we get radio play and great reviews from the few that bother to come and see us.
[/quote]

This is a consequence of the asymmetry between musicians and audiences that I've mentioned before. It takes a lot of commitment, time, hard work and money to become even competent never mind really good. It's easy to think that such dedication deserves recognition and even some acclaim, but it doesn't work like that and for most punters it's just another band playing just some other music.

Having said that, Roland Rock's comments are interesting. Perhaps it's just that particular venue, though what are they doing that keeps people away?

[Roger2611]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1472979051' post='3125659']
[color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]So, we played the Shed in Leicester last night, great little venue, great PA some fantastic artists and absolutely no crowd again....you have to wonder whether it is worthwhile, clearly bands / artistes playing new music are less attractive than a Saturday night in front of the television watching the next up and coming manufactured buy / girl band / whiny solo artiste with an acoustic guitar on Britain's got X Factor?[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]We have spent hundreds of hours writing, rehearsing to be[/size][/font][/color][color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]come the band we are, we get radio play and great reviews from the few that bother to come and see us.
It seems a waste of time inviting people to come to these things as invariably they don't turn up.
So, it was a waste of time for the venue, the promoter, the sound man and the bands, I assume at some point these venues will close, the promoters will stop, the bands won't have anywhere to play and people will be on here bemoaning the fact that there is no new music anymore.....rant over[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

Sorry, I just copied and pasted what I had put on Facebook, so the bit about "people on here bemoaning the fact there is not new music anymore" was not aimed at Basschat as we are all musicians on here that want to see live music thrive, it was more a dig at "friends" that grew up knowing how important live bands were that now just sit in front of the television on a Saturday night eating pizza and bitching that the likes of X Factor has ruined music....well no, the fact you can't be bothered to get off your lazy collective asses and go and support live music is the reason that the likes of X Factor have been able to ruin music!

[yorks5stringer]

Its hard to compete with the new series of Strictly......!

[ambient]

I think people are just incredibly lazy nowadays. Sitting at home with a laptop, you can access pretty much every genre of music imaginable, without having to leave the comfort of your armchair. You don't even have to us the phone for your Saturday night take-away, there's an app for it.

I also think that live music isn't the be all, and end all that it used to be for people.

Plus there's so much of it about. It seems you can't go into a pub for a quiet meal and a drink now, without being drowned out by a band playing classic rock covers at ear splitting volume levels.

Edited September 4, 2016 by ambient

[Bilbo]

It is a really interesting point to consider. The fact is that to become a solid, credible act in any genre is bloody hard work but, to my mind, to become a top notch Jazz player it is even harder and you can easily see why a lot of people question whether it is worth it. I put on some of Europe's best players on at an event in Felixstowe and the audiences are generally pretty poor. I think we have to collectively accept that, sometimes, the music itself is the only reward.

[PaulWarning]

what's the age of your band? I'm afraid with very few exceptions bands tend to attract the same age group as themselves and older folk, generally, aren't interested in new music, I've said it before, but as rule of thumb, if you've not 'made it' by the time you're 30 it's very unlikely that you will. That's not to say you shouldn't make new music, but it'll be only for yourself and a few followers, my band are working on our next CD but I don't really expect to sell more than a few hundred.

[oldbass]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472990604' post='3125790']
what's the age of your band? I'm afraid with very few exceptions bands tend to attract the same age group as themselves and older folk, generally, aren't interested in new music, I've said it before, but as rule of thumb, if you've not 'made it' by the time you're 30 it's very unlikely that you will. That's not to say you shouldn't make new music, but it'll be only for yourself and a few followers, my band are working on our next CD but I don't really expect to sell more than a few hundred.
[/quote]
This.

[sprocketflup]

Id tend to agree with Roland Rock, in as much as the Shed I feel never seems to get much of a crowd in, I played my very first gig there over twenty years ago and it was much the same.

Don't et it downhearten you too much, it happens to most bands at some point. Ive played gigs where the bar staff outnumber the punters, I'm sure a lot of us have. But then the next gig its heaving. Sometimes theres no accounting for it

[TimR]

Nowadays it's not really the job of the 'promoter' (despite the name) to promote the band to the fans.

Their role has changed due to social media.

Why do people watch Strictly or X-Factor?

It's because those shows create a massive buzz. You can't open up Facebook or turn on the TV without seeing them mentioned in some form.

What are you doing to actually compete against that, how are you developing that buzz among your peers? Are you tweeting photos of rehearsals, song writing sessions, recording sessions. When people comment on your facebook page are you engaging with them and making them think they're missing out if they're not at the gig?

The music business has nothing to do with music. It's all about self promotion and that's your job, not the promoter.

.

Edited September 4, 2016 by TimR

[TimR]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1472802075' post='3124309']
On the flip side. I was watching a solo guitarist/singer in my local last night and talking to his promoter/agent/manager.

He manages several originals bands and says they don't really understand the networking and business side of being in a band.

He said that he can only promote them so much. With the way social media is, the best promoters are the band. They should be on Facebook and Twitter and pushing their gigs and new material and creating that buzz. His job is to get them into the venues where he has contacts and advise them on how to behave and promote themselves better.

He makes money ONLY if the band makes money.

That's the key thing. If the band aren't interested in making money and doing their share of the promoting. Then he doesn't make money. The net effect is he puts his energies and time into the bands making the money.

Playing to free to small local audiences for fun is great but it's not the way to win friends and influence people.
[/quote]

[4stringslow]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1472996593' post='3125853']

The music business has nothing to do with music.

[/quote]

I suspect you're right, which is why it's all about the music for me and not about the business.

[ahpook]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1472989648' post='3125774']
I think we have to collectively accept that, sometimes, the music itself is the only reward.
[/quote]

Very much so, but it's one hell of a reward when you get it right !

[Cat Burrito]

Playing with a 50s rock 'n' roll band this weekend, an audience member came up and said "do you know any Oasis?". It's stuff like this that happens all the time now.

Having been around the live scene for the best part of 30 years I can only agree with the general replies here so far. I guess for me it's in my blood and I can't imagine not doing it. My view is I always play to whoever is there and try not to sulk / strop when playing to 6 people who are only half watching.

[RhysP]

I don't think the people that stay in and watch X Factor, The Voice etc. are the sort of people who would otherwise be going out to see live music, and to use them as an excuse for poor gig attendance is both lazy & way off the mark IMO.
These "music" programmes are no different to Strictly, Bake Off, Sewing Bee, Masterchef or any of the other multitude of shows that follow a similar format. Whether it's music, dancing or cakes doesn't really matter to the people who watch them at the end of the day.

Edited September 4, 2016 by RhysP

[skej21]

I hate X factor, Strictly etc so I would never spend my Saturday evening watching 'Saturday night tv'... However, I find it equally frustrating when I go out to see live music with my friends in an attempt to watch/support a band (original or covers) in an intimate venue, only for them to turn up with a stadium-ready PA and play so excessively loud that we can't chat and enjoy the music together and all go home with ringing ears (or I have to take my earplugs, which isn't very sociable either!).

So instead of chatting to your friends/family, being sociable and chatting about how great the band are, you instead spend the beginning of the night attempting to shout at each before realising it's futile and retreat to the beer garden or the other end of the pub in attempt to resume being sociable away from the excessive volume levels of the music.

Funnily enough, wedding bands rarely seem to have this issue...

[Pinball]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1472979051' post='3125659']
[color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]We have spent hundreds of hours writing, rehearsing to be[/font][/color][color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]come the band we are, we get radio play and great reviews from the few that bother to come and see us.
It seems a waste of time inviting people to come to these things as invariably they don't turn up.
So, it was a waste of time for the venue, the promoter, the sound man and the bands, I assume at some point these venues will close, the promoters will stop, the bands won't have anywhere to play and people will be on here bemoaning the fact that there is no new music anymore.....rant over[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Yep we find the same. I can't understand the people who say they are coming and then don't. That is a big change in the way people behave..

I think you just have to do it for yourselves and for your enjoyment. If you aren't enjoying it it's not worth it there days.

[Roger2611]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472990604' post='3125790']
what's the age of your band? I'm afraid with very few exceptions bands tend to attract the same age group as themselves and older folk, generally, aren't interested in new music, I've said it before, but as rule of thumb, if you've not 'made it' by the time you're 30 it's very unlikely that you will. That's not to say you shouldn't make new music, but it'll be only for yourself and a few followers, my band are working on our next CD but I don't really expect to sell more than a few hundred.
[/quote]

I thin k you are probably correct on this, we do accept that age is against us and to be fair this project was based around recording the best music we could and if we got some decent gigs out of it then that was an additional bonus, so we didn't bring a crowd, no surprise (we actually stepped in last minute to fill a hole, so couldn't really promote it in advance, not that it would have made much difference if we had!) but we played with a young post hardcore band (whatever that may be!) on their first European tour who to some extent are relying on merchandising sales to fund the tour and a truly phenomenal Australian beat box performer who just blew my mind! It is not as if the event didn't have diversity and appeal.
What does annoy me is people moaning locally that "you're always playing in Leicester" (20 miles away so hardly the other side of the world) so when we do play locally and invite those that moaned they still can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses and attend.
I know I can play in a covers band and trot out the much hated Sex On Fire to our hearts content but what are the next generation of covers bands going to have to pick from if there is no one creating new music that anyone is interested in?

[TimR]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473001460' post='3125908']


I suspect you're right, which is why it's all about the music for me and not about the business.
[/quote]

But if you don't network and do the business type things to compete against the other highly financed businesses you just won't get noticed above all the noise. Like it or not you're in competition. Be that financial or just for an audience.

[skej21]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1473006449' post='3125977']


I thin k you are probably correct on this, we do accept that age is against us and to be fair this project was based around recording the best music we could and if we got some decent gigs out of it then that was an additional bonus, so we didn't bring a crowd, no surprise (we actually stepped in last minute to fill a hole, so couldn't really promote it in advance, not that it would have made much difference if we had!) but we played with a young post hardcore band (whatever that may be!) on their first European tour who to some extent are relying on merchandising sales to fund the tour and a truly phenomenal Australian beat box performer who just blew my mind! It is not as if the event didn't have diversity and appeal.
What does annoy me is people moaning locally that "you're always playing in Leicester" (20 miles away so hardly the other side of the world) so when we do play locally and invite those that moaned they still can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses and attend.
I know I can play in a covers band and trot out the much hated Sex On Fire to our hearts content but what are the next generation of covers bands going to have to pick from if there is no one creating new music that anyone is interested in?
[/quote]

I think you're missing one of the saddest points made by your own observations... The 'next generation' will be more interested in music like electronic music or acoustic material and probably less interested in 'bands'/traditional musicianship.

Covers bands 20 years from now will either be a guy with a laptop and a launchpad blasting out classic dub tracks or a guy with an acoustic and a looper covering Ed Sheeran.

Edited September 4, 2016 by skej21

[TimR]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1473006449' post='3125977']


I thin k you are probably correct on this, we do accept that age is against us and to be fair this project was based around recording the best music we could and if we got some decent gigs out of it then that was an additional bonus, so we didn't bring a crowd, no surprise (we actually stepped in last minute to fill a hole, so couldn't really promote it in advance, not that it would have made much difference if we had!) but we played with a young post hardcore band (whatever that may be!) on their first European tour who to some extent are relying on merchandising sales to fund the tour and a truly phenomenal Australian beat box performer who just blew my mind! It is not as if the event didn't have diversity and appeal.
What does annoy me is people moaning locally that "you're always playing in Leicester" (20 miles away so hardly the other side of the world) so when we do play locally and invite those that moaned they still can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses and attend.
I know I can play in a covers band and trot out the much hated Sex On Fire to our hearts content but what are the next generation of covers bands going to have to pick from if there is no one creating new music that anyone is interested in?
[/quote]

People are interested in new music. They're only interested in Sex on Fire because that's what they're used to hearing and lots of bands equate doing requests as giving people what they want.

It's not very efficient playing your music to small crowds. I assume you pushed your Facebook page during the gig and you arrived a few hours early and had hung girls out in the area wearing T-shirts and giving out flyers for the gig. I presume you had a few hours notice of the gig.

If the venue is regularly getting low audiences I'd look at the attitude of the management and then bar staff and the cleanliness of the toilets and general ambience. People have had enough of going to grotty venues with surly staff. May not be worth playing there of that's the actual problem.

Plus. How does your music fit in with an Australian beat box and a hardcore metal band. That's just the wrong combination on my mind, it's not going to attract anyone for a whole evening.