What's the point?

[TimR]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1473016661' post='3126122']


??? Girls wearing T-shirts? Hanging? That would certainly create a spectacle.
[/quote]

I need to have another look at the autocorrect on my iPhone. It's making up all sorts of things. "Young". Since the latest OS upgrade It goes back and changes words in sentences even after I've written them correctly.

[luckydog]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1472979051' post='3125659'][color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]We have spent hundreds of hours writing, rehearsing to be[/size][/font][/color][color=#1D2129][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]come the band we are, we get radio play and great reviews from the few that bother to come and see us. [/size][/font][/color][/quote]

Hey, you must be doing something right then, so keep on doing it. if you know it's good, and others get it, so you're basically on.

Don't know how many times you've been round the block, but assume you know the score. My 2p worth : keep writing strong material and don't compromise, only take bookings likely to be successful, only play bills with same genre bands, make bonds with those bands for mutual support, know the demographic of your supporters, time gigs for when your audience has money (monthly paydays, grants etc), play gigs when your audience is around (term times, weekends, early/late eves), book dates well in advance, get local reviews, go see other local bands of all sorts and they'll see you, social network, choose a promoter who likes you, don't worry about making money, play short sets, be nice to everyone esp venue engineers, and be lucky. Phew !

LD

[oldbass]

Done only two live gigs in the past 10 yrs but here's a couple of observations.

A local originals band would always struggle to pull in the punters until established, goes with the territory...bin there done that,.

I honestly don't think I could stomach playing to a modern audience with them all either looking at there phones or holding them up videoing the band. Weird.

And thirdly.
I think we live in a new era.. where live entertainment is going to die and be non existent in 10-20 yrs time. I thank my lucky stars that my best gigging days were in the late 70's early 80's where I was out five nights a week doing originals, covers, holiday camps etc....feeling rather sad about it all really.

[TimR]

[quote name='ians' timestamp='1473017200' post='3126131']
Done only two live gigs in the past 10 yrs but here's a couple of observations.

A local originals band would always struggle to pull in the punters until established, goes with the territory...bin there done that,.

I honestly don't think I could stomach playing to a modern audience with them all either looking at there phones or holding them up videoing the band. Weird.

And thirdly.
I think we live in a new era.. where live entertainment is going to die and be non existent in 10-20 yrs time. I thank my lucky stars that my best gigging days were in the late 70's early 80's where I was out five nights a week doing originals, covers, holiday camps etc....feeling rather sad about it all really.
[/quote]

Don't be. It won't. People have been playing electric guitars for 85 years. It's not going to stop.

Edited September 4, 2016 by TimR

[TimR]

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1473017144' post='3126130']


Hey, you must be doing something right then, so keep on doing it. if you know it's good, and others get it, so you're basically on.

Don't know how many times you've been round the block, but assume you know the score. My 2p worth : keep writing strong material and don't compromise, only take bookings likely to be successful, only play bills with same genre bands, make bonds with those bands for mutual support, know the demographic of your supporters, time gigs for when your audience has money (monthly paydays, grants etc), play gigs when your audience is around (term times, weekends, early/late eves), book dates well in advance, get local reviews, go see other local bands of all sorts and they'll see you, social network, choose a promoter who likes you, don't worry about making money, play short sets, be nice to everyone esp venue engineers, and be lucky. Phew !

LD
[/quote]

This, in spades.

[4stringslow]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1473016483' post='3126121']
I suspect you have a leader who is actually a pretty good salesman. You just don't realise it.

You don't just walk into a venue with your gear and start playing. Somewhere along the line someone has had to persuade someone to let you play.
[/quote]

That's a fair point, though in our case it's more casual networking than being a proactive. A pub we've played many times is the 'local' of our singer. He once mentioned he was in a band and was then invited to come along and play, which we duly did and have been asked back many times since. So I take your point that gigs don't arrive out of thin air, but equally it's not as if we're out there all the time delivering flyers to every venue we can find. We don't even have a demo CD or a web presence . . . although it's something we keep talking about and have have made a few recordings in preparation. Trouble is, I never think they're good enough and always want to improve them before burning loads of CDs, meanwhile the rest of the band loses interest and we make no progress.

[ambient]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473013625' post='3126067']


You live in London. It's a much more diverse and desirable destination for musicians than other areas of the country to be fair. I'm not sure it's representative of every institution, as much as I wish it was. My local college currently has 3 bass students across 4 years and as such, has a bass tutor who teaches across two local universities and three FE colleges, as there are so few players studying the instrument.

This also seemed to be the case further afield when I moved for Uni. When I was there (at a large traditional red brick uni with a large music department) not long ago, I was one of 3 bass players. Me and another in my first year and one in the third who left after my first year, cutting the number down to two. We were heavily outnumbered by music tech students who worked heavily on electronic music production and software such as MaxMSP.

I'm not trying to cause an argument, I'm just stating that there are two sides to every coin, as much as I'd like it to not be the case.
[/quote]

That's just bass players though, there's always fewer bass players than guitarists. Where I studied for my BMus there were 12 bass players in my year, and maybe 60 guitar players.

I teach part time at a local Yamaha music school that has over 200 pupils, mostly youngsters all loving learning to play instruments.

I really don't think that music played by 'real' instruments will ever be replaced by laptops. There are too many genres of music reliant on guitars and bass etc.

[Marvin]

Originals is a tricky one to sell. I'm currently in an originals band, we're all in our 40's.

The demographic of our part of the UK is very conservative towards anything and those who do go out generally prefer a covers band if music is at a venue.

We sort of know that gigging is going to be sporadic and you have to be a little selective. There's no point in us approaching certain places, it'd be wasting our time and the venues.

That's just the way it is. The band I'm with have struggled to get a momentum mainly because they keep loosing their bass player They'd probably be gigging more and have a better following if it weren't for that. Bloody bass players eh, grumpy lot.

[mcnach]

[quote name='ians' timestamp='1473017200' post='3126131']
And thirdly.
I think we live in a new era.. where live entertainment is going to die and be non existent in 10-20 yrs time. I thank my lucky stars that my best gigging days were in the late 70's early 80's where I was out five nights a week doing originals, covers, holiday camps etc....feeling rather sad about it all really.
[/quote]

I don't think so. Things may be changing sometimes... but there's always room for live music. I can't see how that could change. There may be more competition in the future maybe... which is not necessarily a bad thing (from an audience's perspective)

[oldbass]

Slightly off topic but the red mist has descended.
Parked up next to a town pub last week...nice sounding band playing so I thought...nice drummer so I thought etc...go inside....guys singing and playing tiered keyboards with a backing track, his mate is strumming a squire strat...I couldn't beleive it...drums sounded live as hell...BUT the punters were loving it....

[4stringslow]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1473017887' post='3126144']
I don't think so. Things may be changing sometimes... but there's always room for live music. I can't see how that could change.
[/quote]

That was my initial thought as well, but thinking about it I'm now less sure. The long history of music is one of live performance. You had to play yourself or listen to others play live because there was no such thing as recording. This also meant that music was quite exclusive. Today, only around 100 years since recording became possible, the vast majority of the music we hear is recorded and it is completely ubiquitous rather than exclusive. Indeed, with today's ticket prices for main acts, it is live music that is becoming exclusive while recorded music is all around and largely free. Personally, I'd think it a tragedy for live music to almost disappear, but I'm not sure I'd bet against it

[ambient]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1473015961' post='3126113']
You have to give something people want, you have to provide something that they really want to come out and see, then they'll come. It takes time and effort. Lots of both.

There are thousands of bands playing their thing every weekend out there.
[/quote]

Exactly this. Why should someone travel, spend money to come in, and pay money for over-priced drinks, to see your band ? They have to have a reason to do this, a need to do it. You have to be doing something different to what the others are doing, in my opinion anyway.

[4stringslow]

At the pub and other small venue level, what percentage of the audience has actually travelled specifically to see ’your' band rather than just turning up to see whatever live band that happened to be playing at that time?

In other words, how often does the audience come to band rather than the band coming to the audience?

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473018922' post='3126161']
That was my initial thought as well, but thinking about it I'm now less sure. The long history of music is one of live performance. You had to play yourself or listen to others play live because there was no such thing as recording. This also meant that music was quite exclusive. Today, only around 100 years since recording became possible, the vast majority of the music we hear is recorded and it is completely ubiquitous rather than exclusive. Indeed, with today's ticket prices for main acts, it is live music that is becoming exclusive while recorded music is all around and largely free. Personally, I'd think it a tragedy for live music to almost disappear, but I'm not sure I'd bet against it
[/quote]
As long as people play instruments, there will be live music.

[zbd1960]

It's the same experience with classical. Over 90% of all classical concerts in the UK are amateur productions with orchestras, bands and choirs like the various ones I am a part of. No one is obliged to come and there is a lot of competition from other gigs let alone TV, pub, or whatever.
All the groups I'm in have to put a lot of effort into generating audience. The overheads can be horrific with local civic centres charging £1,000 or more to hire, pro soloists will be £250 upwards (we've paid over £1,000), pro players etc means even a 'cheap' concerts cost £2.5k and a big one £15k. People complain that you want to charge £12 or £15 for a ticket when you are probably subsidising the costs by 50 to 80% by other fund-raising.
It's a strange world.

[RhysP]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1473016025' post='3126114']
People are funny with gigs, if you can sell them a ticket a few weeks before for £2 they'll travel half way around the world instead of losing that £2!
[/quote]

Really?
I've wasted so much money on buying tickets for gigs I didn't bother going to over the years that I gave up going to see live music completely last September (in fact it's exactly a year today, the last band I saw was on September 3rd 2015 - I remember it well because I walked out of my job the day after).
I haven't missed it in the slightest if I'm honest, which is odd because going to gigs was always one of my favourite things.

Edited September 4, 2016 by RhysP

[stingrayPete1977]

Yep really

[TimR]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473020979' post='3126194']
At the pub and other small venue level, what percentage of the audience has actually travelled specifically to see ’your' band rather than just turning up to see whatever live band that happened to be playing at that time?

In other words, how often does the audience come to band rather than the band coming to the audience?
[/quote]

This really depends who you are and how often you've played there before and how well your casual networking skills have been when you played before.

If you've a decent Facebook following you will get quite a lot of locals coming specifically to see your band.

We used to go to The Turrets in Frien Barnet in the 80s. We would find out which bands were playing and only go to see certain ones. We didn't have to travel far. It was 5 stops on the tube, but it wasn't just dropping into the local for a pint and a band just happened to be playing.

I do similar now with Lemon Rock. If I'm free on a Saturday I'll look to see who is playing where and chose. I'm not sue how typical I am though. That's a sample size of 1.

[TimR]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473017651' post='3126140']


That's a fair point, though in our case it's more casual networking than being a proactive. A pub we've played many times is the 'local' of our singer. He once mentioned he was in a band and was then invited to come along and play, which we duly did and have been asked back many times since. So I take your point that gigs don't arrive out of thin air, but equally it's not as if we're out there all the time delivering flyers to every venue we can find. We don't even have a demo CD or a web presence . . . although it's something we keep talking about and have have made a few recordings in preparation. Trouble is, I never think they're good enough and always want to improve them before burning loads of CDs, meanwhile the rest of the band loses interest and we make no progress.
[/quote]

Get a live video done using a fixed camera and a mate with a video camera. Edit the two together using an iPad with iMovie. It's very powerful. Upload to YouTube. No CDs required, no one listens to them. You can take your iPad to a venue and play the video there and then. Put it on FaceBook etc. No website required.

In all honesty it really doesn't need to be perfect. It's a disposable commodity. If you can actually get him to watch, the booker will watch it once, maybe not even all the way through. He'll know within about 30secs whether you're what he is after.

People are spending too much time and energy in the wrong areas.

All that casual networking is actually what's getting the gigs. It's not a hard sell. It really depends on who you are approaching.

Edited September 4, 2016 by TimR

[blue]

It takes a long time to build up a loyal fan base that come out to gigs consistently.

My band has been out there for 11 years and our fan base didn't happen over night.

It takes work and a strategy specific to your band. And I'd say it's harder for originals bands. In the States or at least in Milwaukee every originals club charges a cover to get in.

1. The first thing you see in our web page is where we're playing next.

2. Posters are delivered to the venue at least a week before the gig.

3. All band members post a picture ad for all gigs on their individual Facebook page.

4. Our gigs are listed every week on Milwaukee Rock's with all the other working local and regional bands.

5.Our administrator makes sure at each gig all tables have these little 2x4" cards with our up coming gigs listed.

This works for us, do we have a few "turkeys" once in a while. Of course we do.

Occasionally we're booked at venues that cater more to cover bands. We're a bar band, so not the best match for their clientele.

Also, if your band keeps to themselves during breaks and your not out there talking and being real nice to the people that have come out to see you, don't expect them to come back.

Blue

Edited September 4, 2016 by blue

[4stringslow]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1473025147' post='3126262']
People are spending too much time and energy in the wrong areas.

All that casual networking is actually what's getting the gigs. It's not a hard sell. It really depends on who you are approaching.
[/quote]

Could be. Reminds me of the old saying about advertising; half of it is a complete waste of time - trouble is, no one knows which half

Casual certainly describes our efforts, but it seems to work for our low level of ambition.

[Jacqueslemac]

Count your blessings! I've been living in France since March and haven't seen a single pub-type gig advertised (and I'm less than an hour from two pretty big towns). I go to a jam session most weeks to network and try to find a band looking for a bassist, but if/when I do find one, it looks like we'll be lucky to get a gig or two a year (apart from private parties for other ex-pats).

Gigging is one of the things I miss most about England.

On Midsummer's night virtually every bar and restaurant in France has a live band (so I have managed one gig this year as part of a hastily thrown-together band. One rehearsal would have been nice!). In St Lô there were at least a dozen bands playing. Goodness knows what they do the rest of the year.

A French drummer told me the culture of live music is gradually spreading here, but it'll take years before it's even a tiny bit as good as your side of the Channel.

[JTUK]

I've only read the first few posts but if it ain't working, it ain't working, but so if this is typical, give it up and move on. As you say, what is the point.

[lefrash]

Everyone plays a share of gigs in front of noone. It's just a matter of taking the rough with the smooth. From other comments here though it does sound like this venue isn't great so despite good pa etc, I'd be giving it a swerve.

[JTUK]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473020979' post='3126194']
At the pub and other small venue level, what percentage of the audience has actually travelled specifically to see ’your' band rather than just turning up to see whatever live band that happened to be playing at that time?

In other words, how often does the audience come to band rather than the band coming to the audience?
[/quote]

Pubs... The better ones also have a regular audience but will only give you the one chance... So your first has to work. There are too many other bands that will take the chance so you need to be well worth getting back. If the pub provides 30 plus, the band is expected to do like wise.
Venues.... You won't get booked unless you are known to be able to sell tickets.
It is pretty competitive out there... Or is around here. Imo.