Fitting a tweeter

[Kevin Dean]

I'm thinking of fitting a tweeter to one of my Barefaced Super Compacts ..How hard can it be ? rather than trying to trade it against a midget or BB2 that aren't the same size for stacking . Any advice welcome .

[Guest bassman7755]

Sounds like a bad idea on several levels. Your going to destroy the resale value of what is a pretty expensive cab, its likely to sound rubbish compared to a super midget or BB2. You could probably sell a super compact in good nick for at least £400 which means youve got £200 to find for a super midget.

Think carefully about what your contemplating - taking a hatchet to a cab which you bought in the first place because it was designed by experts and put together with carefully matched and tuned components. This applies to any premium cab really not just BF - cant see why anyone would consider modding them.

Edited September 4, 2016 by bassman7755

[markstuk]

This +1.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1472981549' post='3125682']
Sounds like a bad idea on several levels. Your going to destroy the resale value of what is a pretty expensive cab, its likely to sound rubbish compared to a super midget or BB2. You could probably sell a super compact in good nick for at least £400 which means youve got £200 to find for a super midget.

Think carefully about what your contemplating - taking a hatchet to a cab which you bought in the first place because it was put together with carefully matched and tuned components.
[/quote]

[Kevin Dean]

Most other Brands make cabs that are easily stackable , I was thinking of getting a midget but my PA head won't balance comfortably on it . I'll probably look at some other brands & sell these .

[stevie]

I agree with those who have replied already - cutting up an expensive cabinet will reduce its resale value and might not give you the result you're after.

Another option would be a box with a small tweeter that would fit on top of your existing cab(s). Google Greenboy Head Case for the general idea. If you use one of these tweeters: <http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=PAUPHT416&browsemode=manufacturer> the whole thing should come in at well under £50 and is likely to sound better than most commercial tweeters. Apart from the box, you'll need a couple of Speakons, some speaker cable, a capacitor, inductor and L-pad.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1472980546' post='3125674']
How hard can it be ? [/quote]A lot harder than you think. First off, I'd use either a midrange driver or a tweeter that can run to 2kHz. The usual tweeters used in bass cabs go no lower than 3.5kHz, if that, making them more useful for creating hiss than anything else. Then there's the matter of the crossover. Designing a crossover is a skill only perfected with years of experience. Yes, there are off the shelf crossovers, but they aren't very good. There are on-line crossover component calculators, but they're far too elementary to give a good result.

[Roland Rock]

You say you have a PA head- like a power amp?
When I used the Crown XTI power amp, you could customise the crossover frequency between channels, so use some sort of bright box on one channel and the compacts on the other.

[Kevin Dean]

Thanks for every ones advice .

[MoonBassAlpha]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1472989218' post='3125765']
I agree with those who have replied already - cutting up an expensive cabinet will reduce its resale value and might not give you the result you're after.

Another option would be a box with a small tweeter that would fit on top of your existing cab(s). Google Greenboy Head Case for the general idea. If you use one of these tweeters: <http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=PAUPHT416&browsemode=manufacturer> the whole thing should come in at well under £50 and is likely to sound better than most commercial tweeters. Apart from the box, you'll need a couple of Speakons, some speaker cable, a capacitor, inductor and L-pad.
[/quote]
That's exactly what I did a few years ago with my G1 Compact. It was a tweeter with a built-in crossover (or didn't need one, piezo?~)
and it added a bit of air and click on the attack. I didn't find it too hissy at all. It was a type used in Trace Elliot's p.a. series of speakers.
Tiny ply box, Speakon, you're away! I just Velcro'd it to the top of my amp.
I've actually got a spare one if you're interested.

[mrtcat]

The super compact has a usable frequency range up to 4khz. I'd be surprised if you couldn't dial in the top end you are looking for with a decent eq.

[Kevin Dean]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1473019538' post='3126173']
The super compact has a usable frequency range up to 4khz. I'd be surprised if you couldn't dial in the top end you are looking for with a decent eq.
[/quote] I better explain my situation . I really like the actual bass tone I get , But in an attempt to cut down on gear I have to lump around & for speed of setting up in small pubs I've re programed my Roland Gr55 so all the synth sounds go through the compact instead of a monitor , Sound out front sounds fine as its gong through the PA tops I just want a bit more clarity from my side for the synth stuff .It will be nice not having a monitor in the way when a small tweeter will do, built in or separate .

[Phil Starr]

In that situation a piezo tweeter might be worth trying, they cost pennies and don't need a crossover. The down side is that they don't sound great but if they are just your personal monitor for the synth they might just give you enough to save you spending a fortune. There won't be a huge effect on your bass sound either. Power handling isn't great, they are usually rated in the maximum voltage they can handle 25-35V rms which equates to around 100W at 8 ohms, synth puts out a lot of power into the horns. The simple solution is to wire two in series ( I can hear Stevie and BFM flinching here as this is sooo wrong acoustically) It will work though

I've got a box full of these in the loft , if you want to try and are happy to pay postage pm me and I'll send you a couple gratis. you can try them just resting on the cab and build a box after if you are happy with how they sound.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Phil Starr

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1473060453' post='3126385']
In that situation a piezo tweeter might be worth trying, they cost pennies and don't need a crossover. The down side is that they don't sound great but if they are just your personal monitor for the synth they might just give you enough to save you spending a fortune. There won't be a huge effect on your bass sound either. Power handling isn't great, they are usually rated in the maximum voltage they can handle 25-35V rms which equates to around 100W at 8 ohms, synth puts out a lot of power into the horns. The simple solution is to wire two in series ( I can hear Stevie and BFM flinching here as this is sooo wrong acoustically) It will work though

I've got a box full of these in the loft , if you want to try and are happy to pay postage pm me and I'll send you a couple gratis. you can try them just resting on the cab and build a box after if you are happy with how they sound.
[/quote]

Was going to suggest something similar to this - google the MarkBass Tweeter Box for more info - http://www.markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=87

[Kevin Dean]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1473060453' post='3126385']
In that situation a piezo tweeter might be worth trying, they cost pennies and don't need a crossover. The down side is that they don't sound great but if they are just your personal monitor for the synth they might just give you enough to save you spending a fortune. There won't be a huge effect on your bass sound either. Power handling isn't great, they are usually rated in the maximum voltage they can handle 25-35V rms which equates to around 100W at 8 ohms, synth puts out a lot of power into the horns. The simple solution is to wire two in series ( I can hear Stevie and BFM flinching here as this is sooo wrong acoustically) It will work though

I've got a box full of these in the loft , if you want to try and are happy to pay postage pm me and I'll send you a couple gratis. you can try them just resting on the cab and build a box after if you are happy with how they sound.
[/quote] Thanks very much for your kind offer , I've got a couple of friends that run PA hire companies & they are giving me some stuff to try out .

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1473060453' post='3126385']
In that situation a piezo tweeter might be worth trying, they cost pennies and don't need a crossover. The down side is that they don't sound great but if they are just your personal monitor for the synth they might just give you enough to save you spending a fortune. There won't be a huge effect on your bass sound either. Power handling isn't great, they are usually rated in the maximum voltage they can handle 25-35V rms which equates to around 100W at 8 ohms, synth puts out a lot of power into the horns. The simple solution is to wire two in series ( I can hear Stevie and BFM flinching here as this is sooo wrong acoustically) It will work though

I've got a box full of these in the loft , if you want to try and are happy to pay postage pm me and I'll send you a couple gratis. you can try them just resting on the cab and build a box after if you are happy with how they sound.
[/quote]The old Motorola piezos sound great if you do use a crossover. The problem is most people bought Motorola's hype about not need if a crossover.

Used correctly they have far less distortion than a typical compression horn. I will be building the 1x12 very soon and intend to put a piezo in it. If you are happy for me to try it and post my results in the 1x12 thread I am happy to do it. Sorry for the thread derail.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote] I will be building the 1x12 very soon and intend to put a piezo in it. [/quote]One is insufficient. Part of the reason why commercial cabs with piezos sound bad is that they don't use high pass filters, the other is that they don't use enough of them. At the minimum you want two piezos per woofer, vertically aligned, wired in series for one pair, banks of series/parallel for more than one pair.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1473068179' post='3126475']
Thanks very much for your kind offer , I've got a couple of friends that run PA hire companies & they are giving me some stuff to try out .
[/quote]
That's great, they should have active crossovers which will allow you to try all sorts of configurations at no cost other than time before committing to a build.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1473074120' post='3126534']
The old Motorola piezos sound great if you do use a crossover. The problem is most people bought Motorola's hype about not need if a crossover.

Used correctly they have far less distortion than a typical compression horn. I will be building the 1x12 very soon and intend to put a piezo in it. If you are happy for me to try it and post my results in the 1x12 thread I am happy to do it. Sorry for the thread derail.
[/quote]

Sadly Motorola stopped making these years ago, another firm started making them but when I looked about 5 years ago these also weren't available in the UK, though I think there were some stocks in the USA. All I could find were cheap Chinese ones. Interestingly one Piezo horn driver I bought at the time has a crude L/C crossover built into it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-10cm-Replacement-Piezo-Horn-High-Frequency-Tweeter-Speaker-Drivers-Parts-320W-/121346021132.

[stevie]

The Monacor piezos are not bad, with sensitivities of between 94 and 96dB. Thomann stocks them. They all have bad resonances at between 4 and 5kHz though, which should ideally be tamed with a crossover. And if you're going to do that you'd probably be better off with a good, cheap tweeter.

Having said that, if the OP can get a couple from Phil for the cost of postage, that would certainly be worth trying.

[Kevin Dean]

looks like the PJB earbox might be an option