FotoFlame is rubbish - time for a nitro respray!

[Immo]

My Fender P-Bass is a gem. It has perfect active pickup that sounds like a vintage one, but with more definition, it has a comfortable, regular '57 RI neck, it's made in Japan around the end of the golden era ('93-'94) and ...has a FotoFlame finish on the body. Which is a rubbish of otherworldly proportions. It cracked before I got the bass, now it's cracked so much that the layer comes off and the bass is pretty from afar, but far from good looking whenever you're close.
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Clicky:
[attachment=227086:FotoCrack1.png] [attachment=227087:FotoCrack2.png] [attachment=227088:FotoCrack3.png] [attachment=227089:FotoCrack4.png][/center]


I know many Fender-heads will cry in terror, but want to remove this finish, it's funky and unique on the first glance, but ugly when you look at it and it bums me. There is now way to repair this because of the method used to adorn the body - the decorative "top" and lacquer are basically a one entity and when lacquer breaks, the "top" breaks too. And as the bass will stay with me forever and I want to enjoy it, I'm afraid the FotoFlame has to go.

The point is, I don't wanna pay the luthier his price (which is around half of the price I paid for the whole bass!) and I'd want to try the Northwest Guitars spray nitrocellulose lacquer. They got Sherwood Green which should be super-pretty with a slightly roadworn maple neck with maple fingerboard, chrome covers and black or white pickguard.

The current lacquer just comes off wholly, like a chocolate frosting off a cake. I could probably peel off most of it with a thin blade or even my bare hands. The FotoFlame finish comes off with the lacquer as it's embedded/stuck within the first layer. And underneath, wood (basswood, I presume).

But does anyone know how the wood is conditioned? Does the body require only a layer of color lacquer, primer lacquer + color lacquer or does it have to also be treated with a sanding sealer? Is there anything else I should think of?

Edited September 4, 2016 by Immo

[Manton Customs]

It'll be basswood or Alder and neither require grain filling so you'd be fine to prime, spray colour coats then clear. You could even skip primer, but you'll most likely use more colour getting the depth, primer will also fill any small pores better. So I'd spray primer first.

[Immo]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1473025142' post='3126261']
It'll be basswood or Alder and neither require grain filling so you'd be fine to prime, spray colour coats then clear. You could even skip primer, but you'll most likely use more colour getting the depth, primer will also fill any small pores better. So I'd spray primer first.
[/quote]
And that's the sort of answer I was both waiting and hoping for. Thanks, mate!
P.S. just out of curiosity - how much Manton Customs would charge for such a job if the body was delivered stripped from the previous lacquer? Purely academic question, as I'm in Poland, but I wonder if in UK it's cheaper.

[Manton Customs]

Glad to help .

The price to a basschatter would be approx £200.

[Happy Jack]

Y'know, there are people who will actually pay good money to have the finish on their shiny, new bass wrecked.

It's a funny old world ...

[Immo]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1473060532' post='3126386']
Y'know, there are people who will actually pay good money to have the finish on their shiny, new bass wrecked.

It's a funny old world ...
[/quote]
Most people assume there is little to no difference between reliced guitars and cracked FotoFlames. But there is. Those aren't parts of wood showing, looking like "man this guitar was played a lot!", but cracks looking like "man this guitar was poorly made". Not to mention the edges of those cracks are quite sharp and maybe they won't cut you, but they can interfere with the strap of a watch. And the dirt is getting underneath the lacquer.

[EBS_freak]

Have you considered....?

[url="http://www.warmoth.com/Pages/ClassicShowcase.aspx?Bass=1&Body=2&Shape=6&Type=23&Path=JBass"]http://www.warmoth.c...e=23&Path=JBass[/url]

or maybe even...

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-Fender-American-Adam-Clayton-Jazz-BASS-BODY-HARDWARE-J-Sherwood-Green-/142021368194?hash=item2111221982:g:DrsAAOSwnFZXW07S"]http://www.ebay.co.u...rsAAOSwnFZXW07S[/url]

If you sold your existing body as is, it may not cost you that much to change.

A refin is the pain in the arse - unless you are looking for a project of course... but don't expect the same level of finish from rattle cans as you would from a pro spray shop. If you do decide to spray yourself, go slowly and take your time in the prep and sanding, the flattening and then the polish.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do!

EDIT: -sorry read it as a J bass. Lets look for something P based.

http://www.warmoth.com/Pages/ClassicShowcase.aspx?Bass=1&Body=2&Shape=22&Type=22&Path=PBass,Standard

Edited September 5, 2016 by EBS_freak

[Immo]

I paid 300 quid for the bass at the time the GBP was insanely low, so it costed me 1500 PLN (the pickup -SD Ligtnin' Rod - costs 600 PLN new, mind you).

Painting by a pro costs 750 PLN and Warmoth replacement body in Sherwood Green + shipping costs 2000+ - 10 times the spray paint (postage included).

No one in Poland would buy the body for more than 200 PLN, especially with the cracks and after the original owner had the fantasy to carve a stupid 9V battery hole under the pickguard in a random spot.

EDIT: And if I had the money, I'd probably go with genuine MiJ Fender '57 RI, something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-57-RI-Fender-P-BASS-BODY-HARDWARE-Precision-Japan-Black-/381757002934?hash=item58e27d94b6:g:GIoAAOSw-kdXyavK

Edited September 5, 2016 by Immo

[markstuk]

There are two types of people - those who like "reliced" basses and those that don't. I'm in the latter camp, I really don't understand the attraction of adding fake wear... But whatever floats your boat...


[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1473060532' post='3126386']
Y'know, there are people who will actually pay good money to have the finish on their shiny, new bass wrecked.

It's a funny old world ...
[/quote]

[Immo]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1473079199' post='3126626']
There are two types of people - those who like "reliced" basses and those that don't. I'm in the latter camp, I really don't understand the attraction of adding fake wear... But whatever floats your boat...
[/quote]
Relic, either fake or real, is acceptable. But the cracked body - it's hideous.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Immo' timestamp='1473078629' post='3126621']
I paid 300 quid for the bass at the time the GBP was insanely low, so it costed me 1500 PLN (the pickup -SD Ligtnin' Rod - costs 600 PLN new, mind you).

Painting by a pro costs 750 PLN and Warmoth replacement body in Sherwood Green + shipping costs 2000+ - 10 times the spray paint (postage included).

No one in Poland would buy the body for more than 200 PLN, especially with the cracks and after the original owner had the fantasy to carve a stupid 9V battery hole under the pickguard in a random spot.

EDIT: And if I had the money, I'd probably go with genuine MiJ Fender '57 RI, something like this:
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-57-RI-Fender-P-BASS-BODY-HARDWARE-Precision-Japan-Black-/381757002934?hash=item58e27d94b6:g:GIoAAOSw-kdXyavK"]http://www.ebay.co.u...IoAAOSw-kdXyavK[/url]
[/quote]

Ah ok - yeah, the maths don't add up! Hopefully you can get a good refin done then!

[markstuk]

[quote name='Immo' timestamp='1473079966' post='3126644']

Relic, either fake or real, is acceptable. But the cracked body - it's hideous.
[/quote]

Natural wear is acceptable :-)

[Immo]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1473081752' post='3126672']
Natural wear is acceptable :-)
[/quote]
Preferably Some fake relic jobs are quite OK.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1473081752' post='3126672']
Natural wear is acceptable :-)
[/quote]

Is this a reference to un-dyed shorts and leather sandals?

[Norris]

You probably already know this, but nitrocellulose is not good for your lungs. If you're spraying it yourself make sure you have decent ventilation - preferably a proper spray booth with extractor fans if you can

[Immo]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1473091677' post='3126832']
You probably already know this, but nitrocellulose is not good for your lungs. If you're spraying it yourself make sure you have decent ventilation - preferably a proper spray booth with extractor fans if you can
[/quote]
Yeah, but as you probably deduced form my previous posts, I don't want this party to get too expensive, so I'll stick with mask.

BTW, the Northwest Guitars made a nice 5 parts tutorial on how to use their spray-can-nitrocellulose-lacquer thingies properly. The way they show it, it looks ridiculously easy. Then again, with my low skills, dexterity and aptitude, I'll probably end up with severely bruised ribcage, green hair and will spell "Fender Precision Bass" like "ugl-glug-glug-lugs" for two weeks.

[Grangur]

I'm sure, if you take your time you can make a pretty decent job of this. Besides, it sounds like you're not look to sell any time soon. So as long as you like the results and it looks the business from a meter or 2, we can call it a good result.

As you've shown, you can get a scraper under the finish, so I would start it off by doing this. Stick the blade in the cracks and knock off the lose lacquer.

Next, use a heat gun and heat the remaining lacquer to get the rest off wit the gun anf a scraper. Be careful not to overheat the lacquer as you may want to avoid burning.

Rub down and with fine sand paper, then begin with the finishing.

What finish do you want btw?

[Grangur]

I know I'll probably be shot at dawn for this:
Good luck to the OP. I'm sure you can make this good where the manufacturers failed.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Grangur

[Immo]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1473170518' post='3127624']
(...) it sounds like you're not look to sell any time soon. [/quote]
Yup, aside from horrible looks, it's a great bass and my first Fender, first maple fretboard and first P-bass (I like each of the three notions )
[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1473170518' post='3127624']
What finish do you want btw?
[/quote]
Sherwood Green. My goal is to get an effect similar to this:

...but with the thumbrest above the E string and with a custom pickguard, preferably with a paisley motif.

[Grangur]

That sounds very do-able.

As you want to paint it, that makes life easy. What you can do is simply knock off the loose finish. Then get a sharp blade and scrape off all the hard edges to the original finish and use sand paper to shape it how you like it.

I like the re-shaping. I use a 250-300 grit paper to start and I get down to smoothing it down the a good shape. Don't worry about the manufacturers shape. I you want the edge more curved; go for it. Make the shaping into what suits you. Always rub the wood WITH the wood grain. Don't sand across the grain.

When you have all the curves just right, run your hands all over the body horns etc and get it feeling good with the scraping and sanding. When that's done, go to fine grain paper. Use as fine paper as you can get. 1000 grit is good. Then get it even more smooth.

[Grangur]

For the paint I'd use a car paint spray. Use primer. You won't get a good finish without primer.

Car paint gives you an excellent selection of colours. You can then get a good shine on if using lacquer. You can use car lacquer or nitro, ic that's your preference.

For all the spraying. Find a shed where you can hang the body up for spraying.

To suspend the body find a piece of wood in the neck pocket like it's a temporary neck. It doesn't have to fit tightly like a neck. If simply needs to be a piece of wood that can act as a handle. Drill a hole in the top of the wood. Then hang the body up on a nail or hook through the wood.... to be continued.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Grangur

[Immo]

I think I'll call local car paint shops and ask, but I'm pretty sceptic. But maybe I'm wrong? Anyway, the idea stated in the original post was to use quality spray paint.

This guy presents it well and isn't really putting too much effort into the whole business while getting nice results ([url="https://www.youtube....7YrsbIPL6o18BLS"]five videos playlist[/url]). Hope the guitar's body is really lacquered with the spray nitro lacquer from the can.

[Grangur]

What is it about using a spray with "Guitar paint" on the can that makes it better?

Do you really believe they make it any differently to the paint that needs to stand up against stone chips every day?

If anything I would suspect guitar paint is the cheaply produced, less resilient of the two.

Good luck

Edited September 7, 2016 by Grangur

[Grangur]

While you're at it, please will you also tell me the benefits of Nitro over normal lacquer, other than the fact that it cracks when exposed to changes it heat?

[Billy Apple]

I sprayed a body with car paint I got from Halfords. Terrible results, it stayed soft and wouldn't cure. I bought nitro paint from Manchester Guitar Tec and had great results. The nitro spray was expensive, but wish I'd not wasted the money on the other stuff.