bassjim Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Following on from last weeks diva episode I though Id share what was another dissappointing gig. Not financially but from a musical enjoyment point of view. This weekend just gone had one gig for a birthday party in a posh golf club. Concrete floor surrounded by tall glass windows plus a conservatory to one side of the room with nice big glass sliding doors. No air con, broken fan and the temperature was insanely high due to all the glass keeping the heat of 100 or so guests in. Once again terrible bass sound but just about doable. Top dollar this one so no diva fit allowed just sweat pouring down my face into my eyes creating a woeful look of bassplayer having some kind of fit. Think Stevie Wonder waving his head side to side as he does, in an effort to get the sweat to bypass my by now stinging eyes whilst trying to find the best place to stand so I can hear myself. ...End tune 2 of set. wipe down face. stare angrily at amp and cabs. turn back to audience,fake smile and repeat. Could not wait for that gig to end. I have a mat thing I can put under the cabs (cant remember what its called) thats of no use. Cab repositioning, tilting = no use. Equing = no use. hate it when we get these gigs and you are totally screwed before you even play a note. Maybe the gods will give me a break this weekend coming up. Another venue I have never been in before. Its a wedding so I already am dreading a placial high ceiling concrete box. Any known for a fact suggestions that you know for a fact work beyond the usual " you have to turn it down". I and the band already know these obvious compromises. Probably not but maybe ....just maybe...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I think we sometimes maybe play too loud, causing problems for ourselves. We also sometimes mess about with the tone controls on our amps too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Can you not go through the PA and just use your amp for monitoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 You're always going to get venues where the sound of the band has either been the last thing thought about or not at all. I've played places with big dome ceilings, 85dB sound limiters, marquees and so on and you do get places from time to time where the sound is going to be no good regardless of where you play. That was part of the idea I had about getting a small cab that I could raise to ear level. That way I don't need to be so loud and because it's right next to me it's not affected as much by the surroundings. You're already at a disadvantage if your cab sits low on the floor as the vocals can tend to bleed back from the pa and other musicians around you can mask the true sound of your cab making you think it sounds garbage but if you stick your ear near it, it still sounds good. Our guitarist carries one of those Sansamp flyrigs for venues where the sound isn't the best and uses a monitor in front of him instead of his usual Fender combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skychaserhigh Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Most of the places we play were not designed for live music...just have to do what you can and get on with it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1473187956' post='3127864'] Most of the places we play were not designed for live music...just have to do what you can and get on with it ! [/quote] this is probably it. i know and have always known it but just had a hope somewhere someone had a solution to this soul crushing experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1473178541' post='3127717'] I think we sometimes maybe play too loud, causing problems for ourselves. We also sometimes mess about with the tone controls on our amps too much. [/quote]yes and no to the volume. there is a limit to how low you can go before you have nothing as the drummer can only go so low even with hot rods. messing with the eq becomes a beacon of hope so theres that "maybe if i just try....it worked before in that place...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1473184419' post='3127812'] Can you not go through the PA and just use your amp for monitoring? [/quote] we tend to use backline only. so my amp is my monitoring.just keys and vox in the pa. 8/10 gigs we are all good. we are not exactly a loud band. the norm is complements on quality of sound if anything. its just after a run of gigs where in each case the room is from bad to worse due to hard surfaces ect it gets me hopeful there could be a way round it. these rooms wont go away. they will come up time and time again so it would be great if anyone did in fact know what to do that would mean you can still get the clarity and fullness in your sound without compromise. but.......i think i already know its a unicorn solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 A couple of months back I was playing a wedding gig in a cow shed. The sound I was hearing from my very good rig was just awful, I hated it and I know from past experience, that it can be a confidence zapping experience. Thing is though, I know the sound out front was good, no one else was worried and the dance floor was full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 It's never going to sound good in there, unless you play at talking volume. Just grit your teeth and get through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1473240327' post='3128186'] A couple of months back I was playing a wedding gig in a cow shed. The sound I was hearing from my very good rig was just awful, I hated it and I know from past experience, that it can be a confidence zapping experience. Thing is though, I know the sound out front was good, no one else was worried and the dance floor was full. [/quote] same thing here. out front everyone loves it. apart from the odd muso, for the most part most dont know or care. but its no so much a confidence zapping experience for me more of a deflating and depressing thing. I love driving home on a high knowing we as a band smashed it and if I'm honest about it my ego gets inflated, but just a for a day or so after if i know i did good. But i do need my sound to be at least reasonable and usable to be able to say what I want to say musically if you know what i mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Put everything through the PA and use an 80 band EQ to ring out the venue. Search for booming and natural resonance. Drums need to be dampened if the room adds its own reverb. Good luck with that, drummers are even more precious about 'their sound' than guitarists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Does your sound have a low of low end? It seems to me the only problems I get in bad rooms are in the low end of the sound. Cut this out (or boost the mids) and I get a nice punchy sound which I can hear clearly. However, if you're relying on your rig to provide the bass FOH I guess you're a bit stuffed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Would placing your amp on a stand, to get it off the floor help a little? Depending on the construction / materials etc of the floor - this may sometimes produce too lively a sound... Worth considering some sort of stand, to give it a try - it may help a little... As others have said, if all else fails, go through the PA Don't lose heart over a bad experience. I'm sure you'll have a good gig soon, which will restore your faith Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 It is crap playing with a bad on-stage sound though. No matter how much the audience enjoyed the gig I always find it difficult to get enthusiastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1473241425' post='3128204'] Put everything through the PA and use an 80 band EQ to ring out the venue. Search for booming and natural resonance. [/quote] Except that unless you are very lucky, you'll only fix the room acoustics at the point where the PA desk is. In other places in the room you may well make it much worse. Bad room acoustics are a mixture of time and frequency domain problems. You are never going to be able to cure this with a frequency domain only solution (EQ). You are going to get a far more effective solution by trying to make the room work for you instead of battling against it. Draw any and all curtains to cover the windows - my covers band used to regularly play a venue where one side of the room was floor to ceiling windows and drawing the curtains over them made a massive improvement to the sound there. Also experiment with the direction of the speakers for the PA and instruments. If you can't cover up the reflective surfaces, you should be able to minimise their impact by how the speakers are positioned and angled. Finally remember that nothing cures a bad room better than lots of soft bodies in there, so make sure you attract a sizeable audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 thanks for all your suggestions. 2 gigs coming up weekend after this are in known good venues i have done before so i know its all going to be alright then. my sanity and mojo will be hopefully restored and I can go back to advising others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1473244645' post='3128244'] thanks for all your suggestions. 2 gigs coming up weekend after this are in known good venues i have done before so i know its all going to be alright then. my sanity and mojo will be hopefully restored and I can go back to advising others [/quote] Jim you really are stubborn trying to keep away from IEMs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1473244997' post='3128254'] Jim you really are stubborn trying to keep away from IEMs... [/quote] to be fair the keys player and drummer are using them now. i still have the keys coming over from his usual backline monitor but have to admit last gig, bass sound hell aside, not once did I need to signal turn up or down to him. however...i just dont think our pa is up to putting whole band through at drummer volume though. plus no sound man means my bass tone is the least of my worries. however..............IEM for me plus my backline ....hmmmmm........just use em for these venues......hmmmmm....... need to try before i buy i think. maybe this weekends wedding gig will be enough to send me over the edge........just in case it does.....what do i need to just hook me up whilst still using my rig? just out of interest of course.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1473247125' post='3128277'] to be fair the keys player and drummer are using them now. i still have the keys coming over from his usual backline monitor but have to admit last gig, bass sound hell aside, not once did I need to signal turn up or down to him. however...i just dont think our pa is up to putting whole band through at drummer volume though. plus no sound man means my bass tone is the least of my worries. however..............IEM for me plus my backline ....hmmmmm........just use em for these venues......hmmmmm....... need to try before i buy i think. maybe this weekends wedding gig will be enough to send me over the edge........just in case it does.....what do i need to just hook me up whilst still using my rig? just out of interest of course.... [/quote] Come over to this thread - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/205633-in-ear-monitors-help-needed/page__pid__3128312__st__510#entry3128312 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 One thing I used to do back in the days of playing crap venues was to carry a couple of large dyed-black duvets, some extra springy clothes pegs and a couple of folding airing stands. Slap them up across the back of the stage area and it will soak up SOME of the crap and is quite unobtrusive unless the whole place is painted white or indeed any Don Johnson-style pastel hue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1473263312' post='3128472'] One thing I used to do back in the days of playing crap venues was to carry a couple of large dyed-black duvets, some extra springy clothes pegs and a couple of folding airing stands. Slap them up across the back of the stage area and it will soak up SOME of the crap and is quite unobtrusive unless the whole place is painted white or indeed any Don Johnson-style pastel hue! [/quote] A rather nifty time-domain solution for a time-domain problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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